Consciously Evolving Language – Workshop 2 - 27 Oct 2020

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Mobial and Kleinian perspectives; polarity management.


Please register for this event series to receive instructions on how to participate.

Originally published at: https://www.metapsychosis.com/events/consciously-evolving-language-workshop-2020-10-22/

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There Seems to Be Something in The Air & On The Ground
Moving in & out of the Many & the One Vibrations in the Field of Planet Earth(Heart)…Do U FEEL the Movement?

My Bones are Shaking,Rattling & Dancing…

Childhern Dancing in the Rain

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Both 22 and 27 October are listed. Since the 27th is also in the title, I’m going to assume the date has been in fact changed? :confused:

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Oops. Yes, I updated it in one place and not the other. The workshop day has been changed to the 27th.

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This workshop is going to have a “hands on” component. So here is what you will need:

–A strip of paper minimally 3 inches wide and about a yard long. If you cut a strip off a newspaper page, that is fine.
–Tape
–Scissors
–a small stick or broom handle
Some paper to write on (and a pen or pencil)

We’ll have some fun on Tuesday! See you then.

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Just to let you know, Lisa, I will not be able to make the workshop on Tuesday. Not only don’t I have the resources that would make participation meaningful, but we are moving our clocks back here this weekend which brings the workshop into conflict with another appointment I have scheduled.

Have fun and play nice!

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Dear @conevolang participants. I’ll be on the Zoom line about 15 minutes early to provide tech support and a guided tour of the Infinite Conversations site for those who would like to get more comfortable using this platform.

Here again is our video link: https://www.cosmos.coop/zoom/cafe

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Great conversation today! I just love sharing this work. So, here are the articles by Barry Johnson that I mentioned.

This one is on Individual Freedom AND The Common Good, in relation to COVID. (Might be relevant to our upcoming conversation about that). And_V1_Postscript_Editorial_FINAL(1).pdf (301.0 KB)

And this one is about Health AND Economy And_V1_Postscript_OpEd_FINAL(1).pdf (533.5 KB)

And here is a video showing how to join two Mobius strips into a Klein bottle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Azcwe9p4o

Oh, and the article “Paradox and Transformation” about the Navajo (Dine) concepts Maryboy et al.PDF (936.7 KB)
If there’s anything else I said I would provide, but I have forgotten, let me know. And if you want to refine a polarity map for yourself, let me know.

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Thanks for the links, Lisa, and I look forward to our next class. We are learning a lot!

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Lisa, Thanks so much. I’ll pursue the links you provided.
Just want to register my own take on the linguini of divided Mobius strips: You mentioned the opposition between judgement and mercy on the Siferot (or someone did). the Siferot (Tree of Life) looks to me like a schematically organized mobius strip when it becomes complex (from being divided). All of the fragmented pieces of opposing forces that came from wholeness are arranged on a vertical axis between those dimensions that are transcendent to our understanding, right down to the existential, material world. each set of opposing principles are but different aspects of the same thing. In other words, we are back to the world mountain between time and eternity–or the salt point.
Once I hit on a mythological model that works for me, I dig in.

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Post script to my last comment:
All of the play of opposites must be measured against something–the vertical axis of the mountain, or the pole that Lisa balances, All opposing forces are measured against the Center, the top of the mountain, the Unmoved Mover. Otherwise, all truths are too slippery to hang onto–and one is in a sort of postmodern hall of mirrors.
The idea of this kind of vertical axis–the axis mundi-- was the earliest dream of consciousness.

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I can show you a way in which I think the tree of life is actually Mobial and Kleinian. I will have to work on props, otherwise it is hard to imagine. Let’s discuss this offline, unless others are interested too.

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I’d be interested.

This Unmoved Mover arrangement is like the King at the head of the table who can command his household and family or empire. Postmodernism is more than just a hall of mirrors it is an effort to preserve pluralism. Some people don’t like pluralism, people like Donald Trump, for example. He wants a world where he is the boss. . Can we have pluralism without conflict, paradox and impasse? Would we still be alive? There is more than one center, and the periphery is shifting perpetually.

I just want to add something about wholes and parts. Any system can’t be both complete and consistent, according to Godel’s incompleteness theorem. Many mathematicians tried to throw this theorem out but it has tangled up everyone who has tried. So, we can never achieve wholeness as an frozen entity that we can see out there. It can be inferred, the shadows of our doubts, can point to something else, but it is not a package we can put a bow around. The exercise breaks us out of our Euclidean surfaces.

Wholeness and parts are in motion, and as we explored in the exercise, the boundaries and edges of a physical object are very different from the boundaries of complex person who can talk back to you.

It seems we can treat wholes as static ( as Plato did) with an absolute, invisible, whole that was beyond senses. This has led to a lot of fascists’ social theory, the impositions of fixed essences onto persons that they then must obey.

What I liked about the exercise is how it demonstrates that objects, whether physical or semantic, can’t be separated, reduced, and isolated. The exercise seems to point to pluralism, diversity, and movement, rather than an unchanging essence, that is unified without any differences. These are old philosophical problems and I think we should keep them alive rather than try to sort everything out and expect it to sit still. How do you know if it’s alive? Does it move? In the beginning there was movement. And this implies an asymmetry as perfect symmetry would never go anywhere.

We live in a world of surfaces and depths, of tangled hierarchies, continuums, analogues, gestures, tones of voice, mixed messages. But this does not mean we are chaotic, we arrive at stunning order, over and over again. It is when we isolate one part of a system, and demand that we can extract a value from that isolationist tendency, that we create chaos. It seems our newly emerging ecological awareness, which can respect the bacteria, and viruses, and the dirt we rely on to grow our food, this delicate awareness, is just starting to develop in the dominant Western world view, although we can pick up on all of these anomalies that Occultists, at great risk to themselves, worked with.

The exercise has helped me more fully embody, rather than reject, the weird, the uncanny, and strange. It invites us to ponder the tangled loops and odd vibratory patterns, as well as reflect upon outrageous fortune and slings and arrows, that our flesh is heir to.

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Yet all of the variations and parts came from one whole strip of paper.

I think our disagreement about this always comes down to the same place. You assume I am promoting static truths that have become outworn and destructive. I argue that outworn truths have never been real truth but just reflections of a deeper condition that is transcendent that we must constantly renew.

There can be no wholeness without a whole. Whether one believes this whole that we are in is a dynamic process using no compass, or a dynamic process that has attractors, the point is, we are connected, there is a whole. And the axis mundi is the organizing principle of the whole.

Black Elk was a Lakota Sioux medicine man and second cousin to Crazy Horse. He was in Both the Battle of the Little Big Horn and the Battle of Wounded Knee. In a vision he had when he was nine years old, he saw the whole world as one. Taken in his vision to the center of the world where there was a world mountain, he saw the hoops of many nations united in one hoop…with on mighty tree sheltering everyone as the children of one father and one mother.

One might argue that this vision is an artifact of just one obscure culture having no real relationship to other cultures, but this would fly in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Kate:

All opposing forces are measured against the Center, the top of the mountain, the Unmoved Mover. Otherwise, all truths are too slippery to hang onto–and one is in a sort of postmodern hall of mirrors.

This arrangement is like the King at the head of the table who can command his household and family or empire. Postmodernism is more than just a hall of mirrors it is an effort to preserve pluralism. Some people don’t like pluralism, people like Donald Trump, for example. He wants a world where he is the boss. . Can we have pluralism without conflict, paradox and impasse? Would we still be alive?
I just want to add something about wholes and parts. Any system can’t be both complete and consistent, according to Godel’s incompleteness theorem. Many mathematicians tried to throw this theorem out but it has tangled up everyone who has tried. So, we can never achieve wholeness as an frozen entity that we can see out there. It can be inferred, the shadows of our doubts, can point to something else, but it is not a package we can put a bow around. The exercise breaks us out of our Euclidean surfaces.

Wholeness and parts are in motion, and as we explored in the exercise, the boundaries and edges of a physical object are very different from the boundaries of complex person who can talk back to you.

It seems we can treat wholes as static ( as Plato did) with an absolute, invisible, whole that was beyond senses. This has led to a lot of fascists’ social theory, the impositions of fixed essences onto persons that they then must obey.

What I liked about the exercise is how it demonstrates that objects, whether physical or semantic, can’t be separated, reduced, and isolated. The exercise seems to point to pluralism, diversity, and movement, rather than an unchanging essence, that is unified without any differences. These are old philosophical problems and I think we should keep them alive rather than try to sort everything out and expect it to sit still. How do you know if it’s alive? Does it move? In the beginning there was movement. And this implies an asymmetry as perfect symmetry would never go anywhere.


Previous Replies
I’d be interested.

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I am responding to the metaphor of the Unmoved Mover. I have big questions marks around this assumption. I am eager to discuss this further but perhaps in classroom it is easier to develop?
This maybe beyond what can be developed in this thread, Kate, so I leave this as an open possibility.

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John,

A whole needs an unmoved mover, meaning, there must be something that holds a structure together. Otherwise a universe is not a whole, just a huge mass of bits, unrelated to each other. Whatever the structure that holds the whole together is–that is an ummoved mover. A principle that is final point of integration.

Kate:

You assume I am promoting static truths that have become outworn and destructive.

I am responding to the metaphor of the Unmoved Mover. I have big questions marks around this assumption. I am eager to discuss this further but perhaps in classroom it is easier to develop?
This maybe beyond what can be developed in this thread, Kate, so I leave this as an open possibility.


Previous Replies
Yet all of the variations and parts came from one whole strip of paper.

I think our disagreement about this always comes down to the same place. You assume I am promoting static truths that have become outworn and destructive. I argue that outworn truths have never been real truth but just reflections of a deeper condition that is transcendent that we must constantly renew.

There can be no wholeness without a whole. Whether one believes this whole that we are in is a dynamic process using no compass, or a dynamic process that has attractors, the point is, we are connected, there is a whole. And the axis mundi is the organizing principle of the whole.

Black Elk was a Lakota Sioux medicine man and second cousin to Crazy Horse. He was in Both the Battle of the Little Big Horn and the Battle of Wounded Knee. In a vision he had when he was nine years old, he saw the whole world as one. Taken in his vision to the center of the world where there was a world mountain, he saw the hoops of many nations united in one hoop…with on mighty tree sheltering everyone as the children of one father and one mother.

One might argue that this vision is an artifact of just one obscure culture having no real relationship to other cultures, but this would fly in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Kate:

All opposing forces are measured against the Center, the top of the mountain, the Unmoved Mover. Otherwise, all truths are too slippery to hang onto–and one is in a sort of postmodern hall of mirrors.

This arrangement is like the King at the head of the table who can command his household and family or empire. Postmodernism is more than just a hall of mirrors it is an effort to preserve pluralism. Some people don’t like pluralism, people like Donald Trump, for example. He wants a world where he is the boss. . Can we have pluralism without conflict, paradox and impasse? Would we still be alive?
I just want to add something about wholes and parts. Any system can’t be both complete and consistent, according to Godel’s incompleteness theorem. Many mathematicians tried to throw this theorem out but it has tangled up everyone who has tried. So, we can never achieve wholeness as an frozen entity that we can see out there. It can be inferred, the shadows of our doubts, can point to something else, but it is not a package we can put a bow around. The exercise breaks us out of our Euclidean surfaces.

Wholeness and parts are in motion, and as we explored in the exercise, the boundaries and edges of a physical object are very different from the boundaries of complex person who can talk back to you.

It seems we can treat wholes as static ( as Plato did) with an absolute, invisible, whole that was beyond senses. This has led to a lot of fascists’ social theory, the impositions of fixed essences onto persons that they then must obey.

What I liked about the exercise is how it demonstrates that objects, whether physical or semantic, can’t be separated, reduced, and isolated. The exercise seems to point to pluralism, diversity, and movement, rather than an unchanging essence, that is unified without any differences. These are old philosophical problems and I think we should keep them alive rather than try to sort everything out and expect it to sit still. How do you know if it’s alive? Does it move? In the beginning there was movement. And this implies an asymmetry as perfect symmetry would never go anywhere.


Previous Replies
I’d be interested.

According to whom, Kate?

Language points to pluralities, multiplicities. I agree we must have a sense of a center. This is somatically located in the midline of the body. It is not a number that I could measure with, it is a felt sense. And words move. Speech requires breath, teeth, tongue and time.

With what method of measurement would I use to measure last night’s dream?

These are semantic differences that we are pointing to but the boundaries are not structured in such a way that the use of a slide rule or a compass are going to make much sense. And every result that comes from measurement comes from a method of measurement.

There is a difference between math and language. A difference that makes a difference. I am open to the possibility that there is a third that can mediate between first and second. We don’t have to stay stuck in an either/or.

Whole or part? Whole and Part? Neither Whole nor Part?

Fractalholographic? And a Hall of Mirrors that can flip directions. We are bisymmetric Beings in process. There are many kinds of structure we can co-evolve drawing upon a somatic syntax that comes out of our metaphors and our body in motion. The Whole for me can’t work if it doesn’t sing and dance.

Thanks for the chance to riff with you, Kate.

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A Dance is Happening in Flesh & with Ideas it seems from this Human in Flesh with Ideas of Dreaming the Imaginal Real?

A little Wondering About This Center…

I come from the Orientation of I See The Mountain And Feel in-with my Feet The Earth that is
the creative Power within the Mountain.Also 20th century gave a View of the Earth Floating in Space,& the Human Eye Feeling AWE( Wonder & Terror). The Ground We Seek Begins with The Feet & Moves Through The 10,000 Manifesting Forms. We are Living Through a Change,
Grab Your Surf Board ( of whatever ILK)!!!

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I think we are finally coming into a consensus. The mountain is the human–the collective human consciousness-- as well as an individual one–like Black Elk saw. In paradigm shifts, when our human mountain dissolves back into the cosmic ocean of chaos, we have to reconstruct. That is where we are. The roaring voices of the archetypes shrieking outside our doors are our building blocks. We are challenged to make them more conscious, to reconstruct a reality that updates our out-moded models and refreshes our ethical compasses. The compass, that is the organizing force --the axis mundi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNzk5UTV3bI&feature=emb_logo

A Dance is Happening in Flesh & with Ideas it seems from this Human in Flesh with Ideas of Dreaming the Imaginal Real?

A little Wondering About This Center…

Kate:

All opposing forces are measured against the Center, the top of the mountain, the Unmoved Mover.

I come from the Orientation of I See The Mountain And Feel in-with my Feet The Earth that is
the creative Power within the Mountain.Also 20th century gave a View of the Earth Floating in Space,& the Human Eye Feeling AWE( Wonder & Terror). The Ground We Seek Begins with The Feet & Moves Through The 10,000 Manifesting Forms. We are Living Through a Change,
Grab Your Surf Board ( of whatever ILK)!!!

1 Like