# Cosmos Café \[2019/10/01\] – Ancient Philosophy and the Mystery of Our Senses **URL:** \ **Category:** Cosmos Café\ **Tags:** event, planning\ **Created:** [September 26, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599 "2019-09-26T15:49:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![madrush](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/madrush/32/6452_2.png) [@madrush](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/madrush)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/1 "2019-09-26T15:49:16Z")
Continuing the discussion from [Cosmos Café [9/24] – Who wants to save the World? (On Climate Justice)](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-9-24-who-wants-to-save-the-world-on-climate-justice/3587): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4IjFTyW4CtU/maxresdefault.jpg "Cosmos Café – Ancient Philosophy and the Mystery of Our Senses") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IjFTyW4CtU) * * * ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/f/fa274ed34e96e4ef88917bc168eaaa60f7d7a758.jpeg) # Reading / Watching / Listening [https://parabola.org/2016/11/01/common-sense-an-interview-with-peter-kingsley/](https://parabola.org/2016/11/01/common-sense-an-interview-with-peter-kingsley/) # Seed Questions - What is the Subtle body? - Where does our western culture come from? Where are we going? - Could humanity be a seed planted by spiritual beings from another world? # Context, Backstory, and Related topics [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ow-_G26lpOk/hqdefault.jpg "Peter Kingsley Interview") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow-_G26lpOk) “The last stages are here now. The Purifiers are coming.” Thomas Banyaca, Third Hopi Mesa, Arizona, 1986 _In that bright land to which I go…_ [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/jzjrMRPSdgU/maxresdefault.jpg "Wayfaring Stranger") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzjrMRPSdgU) ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/2 "2019-09-26T16:17:04Z")
Marco, as promised, I have viewed our dialogue and made some notes. Here are a few ideas for near future Cafe events and other possibilities- Marco said- _Vision and prayer-sometimes it’s prophecy-sometimes prayer-and in the New Axial Age prayer isn’t just transcendental-a prayer that focuses energy-drawing upon a vision and pushing into the pragmatic-what should be-_ Adjacent possibilities that arise from this dialogue. How can we move towards a sunshine economy? A workshop for Nihilists-how do we get in touch with our inner Nihilist? Since you are going to die anyway, why bother? Exploring Idealist and Materialist forms of Nihilism. And what does the Nihilist want to have happen? A Heidegger seminar led by Marco? Permaculture and Clean Language. Marco, Carolyn and John could meta-model. Michael and John. Using metaphor to heal Trauma. Dark side of the Feminine. Bridget is the expert. Euripides Medea. Women who runs with wolves. The Terrible Mother and the High Priestess at Oracle at Delphi. Plato’s Symposium. What’s Love got to do with it? A New Axial Age. What is a Symbol? How do we recognize a boundary object? Building your Ship of Death. Have you built your ship of Death? Safe ways to Work with Grief and Guilt. Revisit Quantum Poetics. A year later. What has Heather, Marco, Geoffrey learned since that presentation at the Gebser Conference? Let’s do a follow up. Maybe Jeremy can join us? How can we model collaborative partnerships? What happens next??? Social Dreaming. Drawing and thinking. Exploring the Cognitive work of Images. Social Synesthesia. Perhaps Lucy has some ideas? Aldous Huxley The Doors of Perception. A classic short essay on the use of drugs and the mystical. The power of Trance work. What is the relationship between trance and meditation? How to create an action plan? Advanced protocols for integrating Dreamer-Realist-Critic. What is close reading? Andrew has a lot to offer here. The art of reading. TJ on Meta- History. Ed on the Occult and Gebser Doug on parenting and working with elders. There is a lot of talent in our group(s). What support do you need? We want to provide a forum for you. These are just a few of the possibles that were generated. Please feel free to add something that might be of use and delight to our ongoing embodiment and the enhancement our collaborative potentials. What is missing? And what would you like to have happen at the Cafe this Tuesday? What needs to happen for that to happen? ---
**Author:** ![AndrewField81](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/andrewfield81/32/3637_2.png) [@AndrewField81](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/AndrewField81)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/3 "2019-09-26T16:44:46Z")
I want a class with you, John, on _The Future of the Body_, which I really want to read and hear your thoughts about. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/4 "2019-09-26T16:46:08Z")
YES YES YES, let’s book these over the next year,with an occasional check-in to the Garden we are Cultivating here at Cosmos,being a maintenance person this is the Pragmatic side of Living in/with the Internal/External Polarity of Waking -Up Alive!!! ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/5 "2019-09-26T16:46:23Z")
Marco, can we extend the deadline till Friday? I want everyone who would like to participate or observe to have a chance to contemplate these options. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/6 "2019-09-26T16:47:51Z")
That would be great project for a study group. I think we could do it in a few sessions. I would love your help with this, Andrew. Maybe we can co-sponsor an event? ---
**Author:** ![madrush](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/madrush/32/6452_2.png) [@madrush](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/madrush)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/7 "2019-09-26T16:47:53Z")
> [@johnnydavis54](#): > > Marco, can we extend the deadline till Friday? Yes, certainly. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/8 "2019-09-26T16:50:18Z")
If we can make a definitive decision tomorrow we can then prepare for Tuesday and use the weekend to develop ideas. If we have a direction, we are also free to change direction if we want. And Marco, what would you like to have happen this Tuesday? How can we chunk this down to make this Tuesday happen? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/9 "2019-09-26T18:13:46Z")
I am interested because of Gebser of bringing forward a discussion on Polarity Wisdom to aid in the Polarization in times like these,it has helped me heal/recover from personal trauma & work with Meta-Trauma? ![images](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/7/76fafa11eb14a2c34b85ab1075658edc8c8d3933.jpeg) This is what I on-in a sensory-affective-cognitive alive way experienced with the last two Cafe’s as as a participant,both as in one Cafe’ & as an audience member in the other.There was a Polarity of sameness & difference…Marco had his hair down,sunglasses on & outside & Yet both Cafe’s tap into a Jazz that we need to practice…funky,scraggly & cool activism 😜🎼🕶 ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/10 "2019-09-26T18:55:28Z")
> [@Michael\_Stumpf](#): > > Yet both Cafe’s tap into a Jazz that we need to practice… This is a great idea, Michael, and we can develop this further. Maybe we could do this live? You have a metaphor ( jazz)already and can we develop a theme? If you tap into the jazz what happens to lemniscate, mobius strip, topology, torus…what do these figures have similar/different? What is social topology? I don’t know if we have time in four days to read a book but there may be a short essay or article that could be read in an hour? I prefer something personal to start off with and then get more abstract if needed. Can we muse upon this in light of Greta’s protest, at the next Cafe ? Is there a title and orienting image that comes to you or anyone else? And when infinity symbol…how old were you when the infinity symbol became a powerful symbol. And where does a symbol come from? Just a few ideas off the top of my head… ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/11 "2019-09-26T20:44:37Z")
> [@johnnydavis54](#): > > may be a short essay or article that could be read in an hour? > **[Common Sense, An Interview with Peter Kingsley | Parabola Conversations](https://parabola.org/2016/11/01/common-sense-an-interview-with-peter-kingsley/)** > > An interview with Peter Kingsley from PARABOLA Volume 31, No. 1, “Coming To Our Senses,” Spring 2006. > [@johnnydavis54](#): > > Is there a title and orienting image that comes to you? ![Druming%20%26%20Dancing](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/c/ce50117967137e36d9a988c0664bc3d4f34a5c15.gif) ![ashiko%20drum](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/d/da972170ede2b81183fbb1ad1a90df554b767376.jpeg) These are some Possibilities? As for the title “Coming to Our Synesthetic Sense/s”. "Parmenides and Empedocles tell us the senses are unreliable therefore we have to find truth through some other means. It sounds very logical. The trouble is Empedocles and Parmenides never said that. What they said is that the senses _as_ _we know them_ are unreliable, because we were never taught how to use them. Empedocles in particular was very specific. He explained that our senses are still closed. For him, we humans are plants: human plants. Actually we are seeds and have not yet become plants. We have not budded yet, have not yet started to open and blossom. We have the potential to become full human beings but the potential has not been realized. And I find this amazing and terrifying, that someone 2,500 years ago—someone who was laying the foundations for all our philosophical and scientific disciplines—said we’re not yet human, because what he said then applies just as much to us today." We are more than Our Senses,the Difficulty is to how do we move to more without caring for what Do Have to Work With? In my Inexperience Experience “Practice,Rehearsal & Willing to Play-Creativity’s spark & movement” seems to be the Logical Direction? ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/12 "2019-09-26T21:25:53Z")
Thanks, Michael. I loaned my copy of Kinsley’s _Reality_ to a friend of mine, so I have yet to read him. If you want to lead with this interview I am enthusiastic. I have much to share about Synesthesia, as I have done lots of research in this area. And is there a relationship between Greta’s demand for justice and Kingsley’s interview? Does anyone have something different they would like to share with us? ---
**Author:** ![artex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/artex/32/3669_2.png) [@artex](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/artex)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/13 "2019-09-26T21:27:04Z")
Hi Marco, thanks for the invitation, sadly I am travelling all day on October 1st, so it’s unlikely I will be able to make a meeting but I will try and put together my thoughts over the next 24hrs. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/14 "2019-09-26T21:42:53Z")
John please let me know what U think of the interview,that’s the only reference I have with him. I would like do a co -leading with U if agree? Thanks Michael ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/15 "2019-09-26T22:01:34Z")
I am open to that, Michael. I will read the interview asap and get back to you so we can set up the page. > [@madrush](#): > > Let’s get a topic framed up before the weekend. Marco, who was the friend of yours who studies Abhinavagupta’s Tantra? I have read _Doctrine of Vibrations._ I magine that would compliment what might be suggested by Kingsley. We may not be human yet. That may be what the subtle body is doing for us- we are rehearsing our potentials. Certainly, the hybrid body of tantra is in between and has synesthetic features. I speak from personal experiences. And that may have something to do with the conflict Greta confronts us with. Are we there yet? Maybe, yes, no. Aurobindo certainly had an opinion on this. Worth a review? Then, maybe we can have a size and a shape for this Tuesday’s Cafe. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewField81](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/andrewfield81/32/3637_2.png) [@AndrewField81](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/AndrewField81)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 2:26am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/16 "2019-09-27T02:26:17Z")
Okay, because I am insane I came up with an outline for a class on close reading, or what John called the “art of reading.” This is a sort of dream class of mine, as they are all texts, primary and secondary, that I’ve wanted to read and reread and study. They ask questions that I care about and think about a lot - about representation, reality, imagination, literature, poetry, interpretation, phenomenology, evaluation, and so on. These also seem to be questions that other people on this site care about/think about, based on the various discussions I have read and participated in. What do others think? It is absurdly ambitious, but why not? I think it would be fun, especially with youze people. > **[Reading and Interpretation: Guiding Questions and Texts](https://docs.google.com/document/d/19rBpRLnzsn6A746x9z2gh4THVBwLpDEIPi-4fjTt9zQ/edit?usp=sharing)** > > Andrew Field 9/26/19 Reading and Interpretation Guiding Questions: What is the relationship between New Historical close reading and Bloomian misreading? How did Augustine understand reading? What is the relationship between ethical reading... ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/17 "2019-09-27T02:33:27Z")
These are great questions, Andrew. What happens next? I have always wanted to read _Mimesis_. I started it and really liked it but didn’t get a chance to finish. This might make for a great study group. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewField81](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/andrewfield81/32/3637_2.png) [@AndrewField81](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/AndrewField81)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/18 "2019-09-27T02:34:53Z")
I don’t know! I’d love to do a study group. I guess we could wait and see if people are interested? I’ve always wanted to read _Mimesis,_ too. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 2:39am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/19 "2019-09-27T02:39:07Z")
Let’s think about it, Andrew. This would be of interest to writers and readers. It is major classic in literary studies and would really fit in with the Poetry studies we are engaged in. If we could find a time outside of work hours we might start something this Fall? I have a hope that some new study groups will form soon. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewField81](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/andrewfield81/32/3637_2.png) [@AndrewField81](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/AndrewField81)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599/20 "2019-09-27T02:40:54Z")
That sounds good. Let’s keep talking - maybe we could do something on like a Sunday evening? [Next page](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2019-10-01-ancient-philosophy-and-the-mystery-of-our-senses/3599.md?page=2)