# IMMUNITY AND THE IMAGINAL BODY **URL:** \ **Category:** Cosmos Café\ **Tags:** recording, clean-language\ **Created:** [March 28, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882 "2020-03-28T22:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Douggins](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/douggins/32/1351_2.png) [@Douggins](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Douggins)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/1 "2020-03-28T22:10:43Z")
Recorded 28 March 2020 [![](https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/870987364-3713cb90a744d7125bc81ed040c5c2711d3fb5b03f9ec6bbc4c0a74efe563a29-d?f=webpion=us "IMMUNITY AND THE IMAGINAL BODY") ](https://vimeo.com/401690304) [Temporary audio link](https://zoom.us/rec/play/tZUrI-ur_T43GYDGuASDBPJ8W47uLP6s0HVK-PUPyB63VXhXMFSuYuYWY7aQLwFN72P4DjymKRu6gAv1) * * * IMMUNITY AND THE IMAGINAL BODY Philosopher Donald Davidson says that metaphor is the dream-work of language. Embracing this idea Seth, Michael and John generate metaphors for healing through clean language practice. The new frontier of the Fifth Dimension is explored as the Triune Brain is integrated with the Body Electric. # Related topics - [Epistemology and Phenomenology of the Fifth Dimension, A Clean Language Re-presentation - #13](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/epistemology-and-phenomenology-of-the-fifth-dimension-a-clean-language-re-presentation/3879/13) ---
**Author:** ![Douggins](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/douggins/32/1351_2.png) [@Douggins](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Douggins)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/2 "2020-03-30T12:53:38Z")
A smooth flow from a dynamic trio. John, Michael and Seth stepped right into the conversation, brought in their best work. I greatly appreciate the presence of Seth, an infusion of grace, calm and subtle genius … hope to “see you around campus” as we say! Listening to this exchange has allowed for a deeper understanding of Clean Langauge; I believe this is a shining, tangible example of what you, John, see as our online potential with Clean Language and other direct work with metaphor. Having two individuals with many previous rehearsals to fine-tune their craft, who are well versed with their lines, permits a greater exploration of the metaphorical landscape. And Michael, with his honesty and candid working-of-the-camera, added to this improvisational piece. I ask myself…what is carried forward? What is remembered (from our [Cafe on 3/20](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/cosmos-cafe-2020-03-20-countering-the-coronavirus-of-the-mind/3860/21) → [Epistemology and Phenomenology of the Fifth Dimension, A Clean Language Re-presentation - #14 by DAN\_COLL](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/epistemology-and-phenomenology-of-the-fifth-dimension-a-clean-language-re-presentation/3879/14) → Immunity and the Imaginal Body → now)? And what is useful? Some metaphors come and go. Some memories arise from these calls and some will only be remembered upon a review. At this moment three “messages” are coming through: - As I listened to this recording I was weeding and landscaping for my grandmother. During the listen, memories of other listens to other podcasts arose (was listening to J[eremy Johnson’s interview on Third Eye Drops](http://thirdeyedrops.com/jeremyjohnson/) from almost exactly one year ago…doing weeding and landscaping…I remember exact moments/locations/body movements of when I deeply grokked certain Gebserian concepts)…I will forever remember the exact location and exact body movements as Michael said he was at a point of “wiggle and giggle” … !! - Micheal Garfield quote from [recent podcast/Medium article](https://medium.com/@michaelgarfield/on-coronavirus-complex-systems-and-creative-opportunity-b82e227a22e7?source=---------4------------------): "_The best possible outcome I can imagine from this is to witness all of the creative and intelligent people who have been shackled to pointless, stupid, undignified work for our entire lives rise up and create something new and beautiful together. Emergencies often elicit the best of our humanity, a concern for the true priorities of our existence. These are moments when we are called to act on what really matters, and to contribute to our communities and to the legacy that we pass on, at a time when good ideas are unusually quick to spread._ (This sounds familiar to what I preach as an undercover anti-work ranter/inculcator) - Bergson in _Creative Evolution_: “_…to exist is to change, to change is to mature, to mature is to go on creating endlessly_” ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/3 "2020-03-30T13:14:28Z")
> [@Douggins](#): > > I believe this is a shining, tangible example of what you, John, see as our online potential with Clean Language and other direct work with metaphor. After three years of hard work, at Cosmos, trying to get the meta-attention of this fragile slowly emerging knowledge community to cohere, I feel that you, Doug, have received what my intention has been. You have given me my desired outcome. Shall I continue in this direction or change course? I feel there is much that has not even begun to be realized but I also know that I am here to create conditions for that remote possibility that may not happen in my lifetime. However, I am encouraged that my feeble efforts are not entirely in vain as I catch the rhythms of your excellent feedback, both in the last video we did together and the most recent one in which you were absent. I hope we can renew our commitments to the best that we have to offer even when despair seems to be the only reasonable response. The window of opportunity is brief but with a mustard seed of faith and a capacity to integrate metaphors arising in the moment, we may do more than muddle on through. The Trans-conscious may be already unfolding new rhythms into our sensoriums in our encounters! I sense this capacity for self-reflection upon our group life and our latent capacities is self-evident in your feeback. Upon this rock do I build a knowledge economy. ---
**Author:** ![madrush](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/madrush/32/6452_2.png) [@madrush](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/madrush)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/4 "2020-03-30T17:18:22Z")
I listened to the session, too, over the weekend. It was a pleasure hearing John and Seth gently coordinate their practices, with Michael mindfully dancing along, and the rounds of feedback and meta-feedback always circling back to experiential evocations of inner landscapes. I got to know each of you better through this exercise, but also got the sense of a conversational flow that was refreshing. Again, we are not in abstract-ideation/content-consumption land but rather exploring energetic spaces, emotional signatures, symbolic nuances. There is an aesthetic and literary quality to the disciplined flow. Clean Language is obviously not the end of things, but would I think be preparatory for other forms of creative discourse and imaginal play. Even without participating, I feel I have benefitted since I can begin to ask myself “clean questions” in the midst of my creative process. This could help me, for example, tease out the lines of a poem, get unstuck, coax the earthworm of a feeling-image out from under the rock of a dissociated idea. I would definitely love to see/hear more of Seth! Good job, all of you, unflattening the curve of the screen. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/5 "2020-03-30T18:52:08Z")
> [@madrush](#): > > we are not in abstract-ideation/content-consumption land but rather exploring energetic spaces, emotional signatures, symbolic nuances. There is an aesthetic and literary quality to the disciplined flow. This is very helpful as I am like the driver in the Cosmic Dream Bus who has no identity. I am as a co-facilitator with Seth unaware of who the leader might be. The arrangement is not fixed or predetermined nor driven by an individual who calls the meeting to order. Once a form emerges we start to transform and in ways that are not predetermined. I like Seth’s metaphor of an improvisation class. Improv is not accidental, good improv has a size and shape and direction. And my metaphor of a freighter on a river and on the ocean-the felt sense of that-is what I find apt to this occasion. Both of our metaphors can co-exist. For example, on the freighter there is a passenger deck where games are played and improv theatricals and musical performances are rehearsed and shared with the crew when they have some recreation. > [@madrush](#): > > Clean Language is obviously not the end of things I certainly agree. My main interest has been to get Clean Language out of therapy and boardrooms where it is often used to prop up the inequities of late stage capitalism. I want to liberate the metaphorical mind with all of its many shapes and sizes for if practiced consistently I have noticed a great increase in emotional intelligence and appreciation for the sublime within the Other. I find it is one of the few processes that supports the construct-aware individual from a more Intergral level. Clean Language is a great gift to the actor, writer, to the social imaginary. Thanks to Michael for his willingness to work with the effects of the traumatic and to be open to a new kind of rhythm. I hope we can continue to get even more adept at finding our defenses and releasing the energies trapped in frozen time. Time can become a dear friend and Space an ever-present ally. ---
**Author:** ![madrush](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/madrush/32/6452_2.png) [@madrush](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/madrush)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/6 "2020-03-30T23:45:10Z")
> [@johnnydavis54](#): > > I want to liberate the metaphorical mind with all of its many shapes and sizes for if practiced consistently I have noticed a great increase in emotional intelligence and appreciation for the sublime within the Other. I see this happening too, and am happy to support your desired outcome. > [@johnnydavis54](#): > > Time can become a dear friend and Space an ever-present ally. I am glad to hear this, John. From the 5th dimension, we can befriend the 3rd and 4th dimensions; rather than colonizing or being tyrannized by space and time, we can work with them imaginatively to create new possibilities of being in this world and of it and beyond. And that’s like… The swooping, swirling interdimensional flight patterns of alien birds, and a worm wiggling through a plot of earth. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:23am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/7 "2020-03-31T06:23:52Z")
> [@madrush](#): > > unflattening the curve of the screen. Some Felt Images: Poke Through the Bubble: ![poke through the bubble](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/c/c1c30fdb81425a836466b6941fb06d60befb773c.jpeg) Through the Touching- Glass: ![nijwam-swargiary-4g0yJeGSavo-unsplash](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/8/8591b22ffde2034fdadcd6f63a86b285cc83ea8c.jpeg) Walking Through the Wonder-Terror Moment: ![Through INTIMACY](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/7/77c07b6d52ccbc38b81a53d3f185fee451a5a9b6.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/8 "2020-04-04T23:59:31Z")
> **[How to Dial Back Your Screen Time and Survive Social Media in Quarantine](https://www.gq.com/story/cal-newport-screen-time-coronavirus?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits)** > > A Q+A with Cal Newport on why the quality of your quarantine may come down to how you use your technology. ![Heart,No Map](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/4/4446bdabebf8bcd2f53f8a1582e2877eef3ecaea.jpeg) This is Something we have put on the Table in Our Cafe’s… The Ride is the Thing…Can U Feel Your Root-Pelvic Energy as U Engage the Slip-Stream? ![As Above,so Below-So within, so without](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/3/316eff9fc52d0119549c1cc561738192e3d2c753.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 11:43am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/9 "2020-04-06T11:43:47Z")
> [@Michael\_Stumpf](#): > > The Ride is the Thing…Can U Feel Your Root-Pelvic Energy as U Engage the Slip-Stream? I am up at dawn, make a cup of strong coffee, and sit on the firescape, adusting to the chill, fresh air, for it rained last night. I practice pranayama as I enjoy the panorama. Below the rats are running across the courtyard near the garbage cans. Above a clear blue sky with some soft whispers of pastel colored clouds, around are branches from a network of trees, without leaves, bare runed choirs where late the sweet birds sang. After ten minutes of breath-work I get a strong buzz as the prana flows in lungs, and moves through the sensorium. I exhale and hold, and count silently up to 200. Then I inhale and start another round for half an hour. I feel good. Through the open window, I reach out for a book, which is perched on a tall pile of books I stacked up, intending to consult them as a scholastic mood determines my decisions. It is called _Job’s Body,_ a book on body work, which I recently bought at a used bookstore for a few bucks. The first passage that I read I quote below, for it resonates with my breath and my body and my relationship to the trees and birds that make my life most meaningful. “A successful relationship with reality must be learned as a dance is learned-not by contemplation- but by participation, by exertion of will, by movement, by action, and response. In order to derive strength from God and see the angels, it is necessary to enter into direct contact with them, to push against them with our muscles and feel them with our senses. We are formed not by abstract laws but by the intimacies of the wrestling match, where we struggle with universal forces until we begin to feel our individual forces grow in relations to them, Force must be met by force, and the structure evolves as the forces are balanced.” -Deane Juhan “Take your well-disciplined strengths and stretch them between two opposing poles. Because inside human beings is where God learns.” -Rilke I feel the strong presence of the library angel. She guides me through my own books, collected over decades, and brings my attention to what I need to study next. The library Angel is in touch with my Daemon. This is where my faith comes from, where participation and contemplation coordinate action plans. From here, with the Imaginal Body as my guide, the world is becoming a great Ashram, as I attune as best as I can to my desired outcomes for this day, and every day, for me, is an Earth Day. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 12:38pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/10 "2020-04-06T12:38:40Z")
> [@johnnydavis54](#): > > with the Imaginal Body as my guide, the world is becoming a great Ashram, as I attune as best as I can to my desired outcomes for this day, and every day, for me, is an Earth Day. These are a exquisite examples of what is needed at this time- John. > [@johnnydavis54](#): > > “Take your well-disciplined strengths > and stretch them between two > opposing poles. Because inside human beings > is where God learns.” -Rilke ![10411346_10205487490535809_6034592904189047593_n](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/c/c3e715f7f6f59cfb06f4870125ac5c66471e816e.jpeg) I also like the notion of library Angel in touch with my Daemon.I 've been up since 3 am,something guided me to read a article by Richard Kearney: Guest or enemy? Welcoming the Stranger,on Hospitality both in the Physical sense & the “Linguistic Hospitality” sense. [Guest or enemy.docx](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/uploads/short-url/yX7iFPs97doWyGxQVe3FNeNRyVb.docx) (25.6 KB) Your Post this morning is one of those Serendipitous Gifts I treasure about the Cafe’ ![A Drop,A Ripple in the Emotioal Field](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/d/dd24fc305ee0443ae1474a466d7229ded387d6f2.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/11 "2020-04-06T14:50:15Z")
John found this that supports our Kinesthetic Vibe & love of Movement in times of WTF; [https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-04-06/dancing-alone-a-senior-center-keeps-clients-up-and-moving?src=usn\_fb&fbclid=IwAR1DIbOo7bnH76aVQkeLTy1SIVSo4ATHTiULE3GXNJ1fifnHweuYudxg\_GQ](https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-04-06/dancing-alone-a-senior-center-keeps-clients-up-and-moving?src=usn_fb&fbclid=IwAR1DIbOo7bnH76aVQkeLTy1SIVSo4ATHTiULE3GXNJ1fifnHweuYudxg_GQ) While nonstop global news about the effects of the coronavirus has become commonplace, so, too, are the stories about the kindness of strangers and individuals who have sacrificed for others. “One Good Thing” is an AP continuing series reflecting these acts of kindness. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/12 "2020-04-06T15:12:11Z")
> [@Michael\_Stumpf](#): > > love of Movement What inspires my love of movement is my workout Angel. Shake it don’t break it! [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/fLLScgWQcHc/maxresdefault.jpg "5 MIN HOME WORKOUT YOU CAN DO EVERY MORNING l 매일 아침 5분 전신 홈트레이닝") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLLScgWQcHc) ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/13 "2020-04-06T15:18:38Z")
![Dance & Soul](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/8/81ae5d4e4d1e0d1402c86885e0994ed008ecd4a5.jpeg) YES YES YES!!! ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/14 "2020-04-06T17:37:43Z")
The Body wants the Head-Brain to Come Back Home So They Can Dance,Sing & Live Fully? ![Head in the Hands](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/5/5dec264dec18e05f628c98fa3b0ec53a078f8303.jpeg) In a Praying Posture,Hands Open & Reaching ! ![Breathe in Deeply](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/c/c7536dbfa6e0548942a6db166e2c7a3f0de7891c.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![madrush](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/madrush/32/6452_2.png) [@madrush](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/madrush)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/15 "2020-04-06T17:37:53Z")
Thank you, @johnnydavis54 and @Michael_Stumpf for a moment of creative mediation amid the relentless flow of signal and noise as I, too, experience the unfolding sensorium of another day. At the moment I am sitting in the Microcosmos Cafe outside my studio, with my daughter C. who is working on math problems. The sun is blasting us with photon rays through a cloudless sky, a quiet breeze blows, and our dog Mojo is digging in some dirt. And would that the library Angel pays me a visit sometime today! I may be so lucky, but there is still work to be done, people to care for, preparations to be made for future manifestations. I do my best to hold my own as I, too, grapple with the cosmic forces of our life and times. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/16 "2020-04-06T19:05:12Z")
> [@madrush](#): > > do my best to hold my own And it is a poet’s journey you are on, Marco, even if you may not feel the presence of the Angel today. I hope you can give a few minutes to vibrant Voice. I look forward to rehearsing the Raphael and Adam big duet in Book Five. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/17 "2020-04-07T14:45:30Z")
> [@Michael\_Stumpf](#): > > This is Something we have put on the Table in Our Cafe’s… > [@johnnydavis54](#): > > I want to liberate the metaphorical mind > [@madrush](#): > > I see this happening too, and am happy to support your desired outcome. Seth and I are planning to do another Clean Language zoom call this week. We are aiming for this Friday or on the weekend. Seth and I are still thinking about themes. I just posted a link to the Portal interview that offers some good background knowledge about the transition to Group B or what some of us have been calling a sponsorship society. Can we create conditions so that we can become an attractor? Feedback is appreciated and if anyone wants to join us for a live call let me know. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![madrush](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/madrush/32/6452_2.png) [@madrush](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/madrush)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/18 "2020-04-07T15:42:46Z")
> [@johnnydavis54](#): > > I look forward to rehearsing the Raphael and Adam big duet in Book Five. Me too! How apropos, that this week we continue our reenactment of another “war in heaven” in our [_Paradise Lost_ group](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/tag/paradise-lost) tomorrow—with echoes in contemporary articulations, such as the Zachary Stein piece you shared here: [Mythopoetics](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/mythopoetics/3903). I am curious to explore what a “war in heaven” might mean or entail, reading across these and other contexts. I’ll see how I’m doing on Friday—I’m juggling insistent demands with intensive forces in play—but whether I can be there in the virtual flesh or transtemporal spirit, I’m glad to hear about your get-together with Seth and I hope some good learnings result. A suggested theme… We were out walking yesterday and one of my daughters spotted a butterfly—a small monarch—that sat still for a while on a stalk of grass, then flitted about and away in a lively pattern, and whom I dubbed the CoronaButterfly. I thought that this precious, endangered insect could be a fleeting symbol for a subtle spirit of our times. I thought of the Monarch Butterfly sanctuary keepers in Mexico who were murdered last year. I wondered why the butterfly was so small. The girls thought that perhaps it was very young. _What beauty, through mother death, wants to be born? What crawling, gorging thing yearns to be transformed?_ My daughters followed the butterfly with their eyes enchanted. I recorded a video for documentary evidence. Then we walked home. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/19 "2020-04-07T16:00:55Z")
![NeuroFly](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/d/d1d2eba3b4babf40ce23baa4e888337c9914b027.gif) ![Butterfly On My Shoe](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/b/ba8ce5971db289c1e4e02e2f2d0238d93b6ea30e.jpeg) Heaven is Earth without separation…? ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882/20 "2020-04-07T16:32:32Z")
> [@madrush](#): > > My daughters followed the butterfly with their eyes enchanted Carmen and Beatrice are such wise children. I had so much fun with them at MOMA last summer. What a lark! And a war in heaven…and trying to make sense… My brother is in the hospital, very ill, ready to let go. I’m coordinating a conversation with him today and this may be our last conversation while working intensely with the Family Mind and with Mind at Large which from New York, the epicenter, I can report that the news is bad. I am open to believe something might happen in a zoom call this Friday if three or more can gather together who are in the mood to wrestle with their Daemon. And how do you know the Daemon from the Demon? This seems to be a theme that Milton develops with his story of the demonic angel, Satan. And we are collectively dealing with Corona. I have had to wrestle with the Demonic as embodied in a Family, embedded in a Civilization on the verge of a collapse. And I am still here as that old Broadway song goes. I am, under the circumstances, very busy. Fight, flight, freeze? Seth, who is deeply engaged in esoteric practices, has to work this week so I am trying to make it happen around his availability . I would like to continue to model metaphorical landscapes, training attention to travel in depth dimensions, developing meta-skills. Seth and I have been working on the _Divine Double_ for several years and so we may want to present something if we can get it set up and find a clear signal amidst the cacophony of diabolic noise. And I am hoping we can find a safe to fail experiment emerges. Thanks for interest, gentlemen, and I hope we can start, when we start, with a clean start. [Next page](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/immunity-and-the-imaginal-body/3882.md?page=2)