Summer Reading Plans / Updating our Cosmos Café Hours, Menu, and Format

So - 1) tomorrow for the @ccafe time change? an hour earlier.
2) I started reading “Trouble” - It fits in perfectly. Tomorrow’s lead topic? I can do “seed questions” & post , if you’d like?

3) love the idea of a cafe “menu”
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What am I learning from this convocation of dreamers and critics that have come together on the Cafe? We have different styles and different tempos. We need to get better at finding the down beat, hearing the right pitch, aware of minor and major gestures of our fellow performers in motion. If we go sour while hitting a high note we need to pay attention to that. As we are living in different time zones and with different agendas it takes a greater sensitivity to the stress zones that are important. We need to get better at transcending and translating between disciplines.

I am most interested in the experiential and process oriented than the theoretical. I sense that this Cafe may not be the right space to develop those kinds of far out, active visionary experiments. This space seems to have a more cognition-centric bias, a kind of let’s sit back and think about what we are thinking about. And as a space to summarize or get a handle on different trends within and beyond the Cosmos site this is useful and enjoyable.

It would be nice to have a sense of where each person who shows up is showing up from? That will vary no doubt, from day to day, session to session. Some of us may be having post rational fast forwards and need alternate frames of reference. Some people do not want that, they are fine with with the frames of reference they already have. That may appear to them as an intrusion or violation of norms.

As a storyteller, I am very aware of the stories we use to tell our stories. Science and art are kissing cousins and odd bedfellows. And as we are multi-cultural citizens, often stuck in a mono-phasic bias, that has a crippling effect sometimes on our discourse events. I believe we have enacted this twist in the mobius strip in some of our recent episodes.

I think what I have learned from this experiment is that my kind of experimenting is perhaps not what the Cafe needs. And that is good for me to know so I wont inflict my own needs onto this particular configuration. I may continue to develop those needs in other group formations, such as the underground channel(s), and then report those discoveries, to the Cafe if they warrant reporting. I am grateful for everyone’s support and the kindness that I often have felt come towards me. I sense this is the essence of co-sponsorship and hopefully we can balance the homelessness that many of us have given voice to, with a more active social engagement system.

I tend to agree with Geoffrey. Haraway is a big book and it will take more than just a village to read this well. I think we should save the Cosmos for short essays, articles or films and topical stuff. It is more like Saturday Night Live than the deep dives we do at the Reader’s or Writer’s Underground. We need to cultivate the slow and the fast, not too loose and not too tight.

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Mark, I love your enthusiasm but I feel we are moving too fast on Haraway. I agree with Geoffrey. I feel we are not integrating much of what we are opening up and need to reorient ourselves. We cant decide a day before the cafe what we are going to do at the cafe. It is not enough time to read and absorb a complex thinker like Haraway. Maybe we need to press the pause button. I like reading something smaller and manageable and that we know well in advance as the topic. As we are meeting up weekly, that is a different energy than a monthly meet up.

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There is a bit of disconnect here, I think. I’m easy anyway anyone wants to go. It would be nice to know when I should try to log in, however, or does the disconnect indicate a one-week hiatus?

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Trying for clarification is what i’m up to. I’m ok with whatever. I read marco’s proposal as just the first chapter of the book, and then one each week? Reading the intro, seems to me the book is about all the things we’ve been talking about - so in that way, it is “integrating” the “conversation”. That’s what she’s trying to do / calling for, i think.
… I’m ok with whatever you decide. Date and time, i’ll be there … most likely.

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Precisely my point … just what is “on tap” tomorrow?

The text he provided is the intro plus chapter 1, whereby the intro could also be considered a chapter (say, 0, even if it is short), but he says later we could start discussing her book on 5 Jun. That was the disconnect for me.

Of course, I started glancing over the intro, just to get a feel for what’s she’s on about, and agree that she’s talking about a lot of the same things that have been coming up over and over again in many of our recent CCafés, which does make in “integrating” in exactly the sense that I think you’re using the term. While searching for an online pdf version of the entire text (which I found without t-o-o much effort), I stumbled across a talk Haraway gave at the SF Art Institute in 2017 which consisted in “long quotes” (although presented extemporaneously) from her intro/ch1 plus some supporting examples and further discussion of themes she addresses in the book. I’m guessing that it’s a concise, but accurate, overview of the whole project. For the most part, it’s not overly challenging listening/watching, even if she has a tendency (which I’ll forgive her for, considering her audience) to get a little jargony in places. (Then again, her way of expressing herself is as much worth thinking more about as is the content of what she’s trying to bring across.)

But, be that as it may … I’ll be there tomorrow, I was only interested in knowing whether it would be an hour earlier than usual ? We’ve still got 24 hours or so … perhaps we’ll find out.

One of the people I am thinking about approaching for a Cafe is my friend and collaborator Marie Louise Bourbeau. I’m not sure if she would accept, she is quite busy, but she is an expert on breathing for both singers and non-singers, and I thought it might be interesting, both for her and for us, to try some sort of an online chat focussed around some of her breathing exercises. She often incorporates a bit of chanting into her workshops for the general public (i.e. non singers), and that might fit with our other interests.

I also think my friend Cora (who is on the Manning chat) might be coaxed into doing something similar in relation to dance. She could talk about some of her work in dancing with children and dancing with people with disability, and integrate some active exercises as well. She did a session like that years ago for a research group we were involved in, it was a memorable experience.

So a more “practical” arm (or legs) for the Cafe?

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I have advocated for alternate ways of knowing until I am blue in the face. I think it is time for me to lie down and do my breath exercises. I dont know that we are ready for anything that radical.

Hi Mark, good to see you again! Here’s where you can follow all the Aurobindo stuff:

https://www.infiniteconversations.com/c/metapsychosis/aurobindo

You can also update your settings to track posts in this particular channel:

And you can adjust your email preferences…

Like this (click me)

Maybe we’ll sort out our plan for the Café. I agree with @johnnydavis54 that some advance planning is best, hence my proposal.

A chapter of week of Haraway’s book is, I think, on its own, perfectly doable, maybe even ideal—and would be a way of integrating (by re-viewing, re-thinking) many similar ideas we’ve been discussing all along. However, point well taken (via @Geoffreyjen_Edwards) that this is in addition to Aurobindo, Manning, Xingjian, et al. Too much of a good thing becomes a bad thing, of course.

But then again, no one has to read everything everybody else is reading. This is all radically optional, and what I like is that we’re cultivating different channels or ‘spaces’—underground, aboveground, etc.—where different people can focus on different things, which nonetheless, by virtue of being interrelated in a meta-space, have something to do with one another, which makes possible some very interesting (imo) creative overlaps and resonances.

My desire is to keep the Café alive, so I’m trying to solve the logistical question: What will we talk about next week? Having a few chapter books lined up answers the question for most weeks, while leaving room for guests, one-off topics, open frames, and other ways of knowing. Haraway’s book, btw, is 168 pps. (or 228 including the Notes), divided into 8 chapters, so an average of 30 pps./week (max). But again, for some (including myself) this would be in addition to a lot of other reading. Not to mention writing and editing, etc. So maybe every other week would be fine.

Or maybe I need to go gonzo left-brain for a spell and make a budget of books, pages, time… We never get to eat everything on the menu! Why don’t we talk about it tomorrow? However, I would definitely like to have a plan for the summer. I prefer not to be winging it every week, with everything else going on.

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I still think Haraway deserves a different space from the Cafe. I think it is a big book in terms of ideas and needs more of an intellectual commitment. I think the Cafe is better suited for movies or videos, short but thoughtful contrastive viewpoints of different writers, more like the mother! quintet we did a few weeks ago.

Do we really need another full length book to discuss?

I hope can start meeting objections at least halfway before we start the bus and start driving. Did anyone bother to bring a map? Another extravaganza to nowhere is the last thing I need. A small party with appetizers please! I dont need another giant buffet.

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So, what time tomorrow?

Have you seen our bus, @johnnydavis54?

Pripyat, Chernobyl (The Exclusion Zone)


May 29, 2018 6:00 PM

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So maybe we should get out of the bus and walk? Maybe hitch a ride to town. I am a bit tired of too much travel. Getting a bit of vertigo.

Perhaps we could construct a group list of “commentable films” - that is, films old or new that might benefit from a deeper collective conversation and that fit with the broader range of interests characteristic of this site.

Here are some films I have seen that I consider possible candidates. Note that I have not listed other films I’d like to see but do not know much about (Tarkovsky’s other films, for example) :

Wings of Desire : great complex film, highly poetic
Arrival : could be worth doing
Blade Runner & Blade Runner 2049 : the combo would be fun
Contact & 2001 A Space Odyssey : these also make an interesting combo
Fahrenheit 451 : I think someone already suggested this
The Lathe of Heaven : A decent production of Leguin
Childhood’s End : The recent version
Interstellar : Not sure about this one, although I have read interesting commentary about it
Mars & Avril : Lepage’s film, not widely available in English although it can be found - great film, also complex and poetic
The Zero Theorem - interesting film, haven’t seen much about it
Synechdoche, New York - I loved this but it is an acquired taste, maybe?
Immortal : - YouTube - Another French film available in English at link provided - screening of Erik Bilal’s classic Bande Dessinée

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@takeurvitamins, in her personal introduction, has made these suggestions (some nice overlaps):

Regarding “lurkers,” I meant that in the friendliest way. :female_detective:

It’s just that I’ve heard from a few people (including amongst us oldie-newbies) that being on camera, and being recorded, with the video posted publicly, can be intimidating. Naturally, some people are more extroverted or introverted, more or less comfortable being “on stage” (performing), as real as we may keep it. And I wonder what we’re losing in neurodiversity by not providing a more gradual on-ramp for quieter voices.

However, on the other side, it’s no fun being lurked at, so I’m not quite sure I have a technical answer. As well, I am trying to think about this at a platform-design level, in response to some of the visionary concepts in @care_save’s Key Docs:

^^ which also would be a good topic for an upcoming Café.

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This is a public forum, Marco, and I appreciate that some of us might feel shy about exposing themselves to criticism from people who are not fair minded, and that has happened to me here on this forum, and no one defended me nor do I expect that. I defended myself.

I have had a few such encounters of the unsavory kind myself. And I also know from bitter experience that the first person starts with you. No one is going to do it for you or on your behalf. If that’s too scary for you then stay home and redecorate your apartment. I have really had it with people tell me to tone it down so other people who dont speak up can feel comfortable. Communication is not a risk free experience. If you can’t cross over into a public space and get your ideas across then accept that others will do so. And maybe you need to work on that. And acting ‘as if’ is a very good way to start.

I would prefer you don’t tone it down, John! I love you and all your weirdness. Nor am I interested in being a victim’s advocate. I am especially not interested in zero-sum café games! I want people to speak up for themselves; it’s just that I don’t want them to be confused by our set-up, or have a lot of difficulty finding their way in. I want high quality spaces for everybody who sincerely wants be here (in the Café zone). I don’t mind being a little more accomodating, if it serves the overall space.

If I were literally running a café I would be paying attention to poetics of space—the varying ways of welcoming clientele with different tastes, needs, and preferences. For example, I would be sure to have a few quiet corners for intimate conversation. I would also want a couple more open, brightly lit areas for business meetings and group discussions. I’d certainly have a stage for open mic nights and performances. In addition: the menu, music, and decor would all be on my mind.

And if I was a customer of such an establishment, I would probably make use of all these spaces at different times, in different moods. What kind of space within the meta-space would you like to create? How could I help (if I can)? I feel that we’ve opened up a lot of possibilities in last few months. I’m open to alternative ways of knowing, thinking, being…what would you like to have happen?

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thanks, @achronon . Always informative to see and hear a person. Almost as good as being in close proximity.:bearded_person: (where is the Buddhist smirk emoji)

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@johnnydavis54 if you’re referring to my comment that I don’t watch the youtube edited broadcasts, it’s not b/c of intimidation; but b/c of my preference for “real” spontaneous interaction, albeit the public broadcast of “intimate” conversation may intimidate some. There is a human characteristic called “self-monitoring”; like introversion/extraversion, it’s a personality trait - some people are high, some low, some in the middle, and so on and so forth. I score low in that trait, which can get me in trouble. No doubt I might benefit from an “actor’s studio” workshop. Just not my “style.” And, but maybe - ‘the times they are a changing’. Now, everyone’s on stage all the time, whether they like it not, and one would be well served to be prepared for that. “Life’s a campaign”, now more than ever. gotta go - cafe’s open.

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