# War **URL:** \ **Category:** Commons\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226 "2022-02-24T16:19:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![madrush](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/madrush/32/6452_2.png) [@madrush](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/madrush)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/1 "2022-02-24T16:19:09Z")
> **[Russia attacks Ukraine; peace in Europe 'shattered'](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-putin-attack-a05e7c4563ac94b963134bba83187d46)** > > KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia launched a wide-ranging attack on Ukraine on Thursday, hitting cities and bases with airstrikes or shelling, as civilians piled into trains and cars to flee. This is not only a metaphor. I wonder what the members of this forum think about the war which has just started in Europe. I am not even going to try to pretend that I understand what is going on—all the historical, geopolitical, and economic drivers, let alone the meta-modern meta-perspectival sense-making meta-meaning, nor could I predict what is going to happen next… Is this a world-historical moment? Are we at the beginning of WW3? Or is this just another dramatic chess move in the long endgame of European history? And, oh how I love thee, sanctions… Hasn’t it already been assumed that Ukraine would be sacrificed? And before there was peace and now there is war. And where was there peace? And this is why Ukraine was so important to the Trump presidency, yes? And it has something to do with Hunter Biden’s laptop, right? And why Trump was pulling the US out of NATO… And why wouldn’t Russia want a buffer between itself and the rest of Europe, after Napoleon, WW2, and Serbia in the 1990s? And China has helpfully volunteered to buy up Russia’s wheat. And the people of Ukraine, and the neighboring (former Soviet-bloc) countries… Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Estonia… I imagine the people, and ancestral memories well up… My father’s family, fleeing their home in Italy during WW2… And my family in El Salvador in the 1980s’… And all the people I know whose families have fled from war… We all have ancestral memories. We might know what it’s like to be Ukraine right now. We can feel it through the global nervous system of the world wide web. And I remember when the US invaded Iraq, I was in high school and it was a classmate’s 16th birthday, and I was invited, which was an anomaly because he was a good-looking, popular kid, and I didn’t feel I belonged in his peer group, but we played soccer together and I think that’s why, and we all ate out at an Applebees or someplace like that, and there was a TV on the wall, and CNN, and there was the video of the tomahawk missiles streaking and bright explosions of ambiguous targets blowing up in the Iraqi desert, and the public was allayed with talk of “smart bombs,” which were surely the precursors of our current smart devices. And I remember watching GW Bush’s blustering, pathetic speeches on TV—and all the maneuvering at the UN, and Colin Powell, and so-called world leaders making big vapid statements, all the justifications, rationalizations, and posturing. Something like 200,000 people violently killed, many more of secondary causes. And nowadays the tweeting-heads are tweeting, for the warzone extends into the metaverse. And how my dad in his later years used to watch RT television, which was blatantly Russian propaganda, obviously, as much as FOX News and CNN are US/American or globalist propaganda, and I would wonder: how could they even _allow_ that on cable TV in the US? However, it did present an alternative narrative, which (among other irruptions in the media) helped to dislodge the hegemony of the US/American story. There is nobody at the wheel. The people of Ukraine are being thrown under the bus. Putin asserts Russia’s will to power. The price of oil has shot up to over $100 a barrel. The utterly boring markets are reacting. Some pipeline won’t be built. Various dubious international deals and financial arrangements are being scuttled. And? What is the alternative? What could possibly be done that wouldn’t risk a much wider conflict? I am an artist. I exist in the same world as Ukraine, and as you. I am one and many bodies. I have one and many voices. I am thinking out loud, so that thinking might happen. Are we thinking yet? How do you all understand what’s happening in Ukraine, and what this means for us (as humanity, as Spirit, as cosmic consciousness incarnate in world history) or for you? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/2 "2022-02-24T18:03:24Z")
> [@madrush](#): > > . We can feel it through the global nervous system of the world wide web. > [@madrush](#): > > How do you all understand what’s happening in Ukraine, and what this means for us (as humanity, as Spirit, as cosmic consciousness incarnate in world history) or for you? I Don’t Know, I Don’t Know , Fucking Don’t Know!!! What Do Know-Feel is There is No Distance Between Myself & What U Bring to My Attention with this piece…Where is the Exist from this Box…is it Through… I am Stumped ![OIP](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/a/a811f1775e0c3b059a8d3ee566c7bb199049c83d.jpeg) Thank You for the Heart Felt Attention ![HeartBeat](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/d/de38d4dba7b8140aca8bb2a0202efa07b8b25710.png) ![The Mind is not a Cage](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/1/134c286c8671c519c2a6547885564b62389621e0.jpeg) A side note I am staying in Hollywood,watching my Daughter’s dog Michonne while she goes to Cancun for her 30th Birthday…There is Now-Here to Hide I Guess? ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/3 "2022-02-24T23:50:27Z")
> [@madrush](#): > > I am not even going to try to pretend that I understand what is going on—all the historical, geopolitical, and economic drivers, let alone the meta-modern meta-perspectival sense-making meta-meaning, nor could I predict what is going to happen next… Trudeau declared economic sactions on the truckers and thier allies. Demonizing the population by assuming emergency powers and imposing sanctions as you would to a terrorist has shocked a lot of people. Evidently there has been a run on Canadian banks as people take out thier funds in fear. Trudeau lifted the order to prevent a banking collapse. Capitalism is a ruthless force. Canada is starting to look like the New China. There are always unintended consequences. Putin invades this morning and sanctions are coming at him from everyone, the pipe line is closed in Germany, and the EU is unified against his agression. China and India who have close ties to Russia are watching and waiting. I recall William Irwin Thompson thought China and the US were becoming more like one another. I wonder. It is a game of chicken. If China sees US flinch it will move against Taiwan. With supply chains disrupted around the world we can see more of that happening and China is teetering on the brink just as we are. More unintended consequences. Like that lab leak in Wuhan. And with so much suffering and uncertainty, what do I want to have happen? I want to give more attention to what we have been developing in the last couple of years in the Cafe with our studies of McLuhan, Gebser, Hofstader, Milton, Butler, Langer, Sloterdijk, Aurobindo and many others. That effort has been motivated to create conditons for creative collaboration during what many of us sensed was going to be a bumpy ride. The spectrum between random and chaos and regularity is fascinating to watch. A terrifying beauty. I went to the park on this gray, cold day, and found a bench, sipped coffee from my thermos, ate some chocolate. I closed my eyes and was surprised how peaceful I was even though I was very sad. I came home and read, trying to get ready for some projects, studying communication theories, trying to fnd a next wave. We are making a transition and after two years of Covid are mindful of how fragile we are. Preparing for the transition has been my motivation and I find wonderful events are happening. Beautiful music, movies, books and dreamtime. > [@Michael\_Stumpf](#): > > watching my Daughter’s dog Michonne > while she goes to Cancun for her 30th Birthday Your daughter is 30 years old, down in Cancun, having fun. And you have to take care of the dog. A healthy relational circuit. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 1:07am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/4 "2022-02-25T01:07:29Z")
> [@johnnydavis54](#): > > I went to the park on this gray, cold day, and found a bench, sipped coffee from my thermos, ate some chocolate. I closed my eyes and was surprised how peaceful I was even though I was very sad ![Tenderness & Kindness](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/4/42878dd3c7d819795630e946b32f54cc6cf99b7e.jpeg) Thanks For Your Attention John to My Way of Participating! ---
**Author:** ![versa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/versa/32/8279_2.png) [@versa](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/versa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:08am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/5 "2022-02-25T08:08:51Z")
I was thinking I had never been a part of a world with war before (which isn’t entirely true apparently because people have been saying that ukraine was already basically at war of some kind since 2015 or something?) I don’t have a television so I don’t get the news the way other people get the news. And I don’t even know if the news seen in Canada is like the news seen in America or Europe or wherever. I see bits and pieces of stories on the tele at work during breaks. Fragments of a reality that terrifies me on some level. The news stories were all covid, and freedom convoy, and emergency measures, and now it’s invasions and war and sanctions and people fleeing and people crying with the realization the world they woke up to was suddenly much more dangerous than the day before. I don’t know much about ukraine and russia and wars and disputes. I never paid much attention to news at all before 2013. And then I dated a news junkie and for awhile developed a habit of watching the weekly news on Saturday mornings with coffee and bacon or a croissant. I don’t know how much of the news is honest reporting and how much is being churned out for the purposes of misleading or covering up or propaganda. I am still watching, observing, learning, and thinking that I’ve never lived in a world where I realised there was war. It feels like a different sort of reality. Like what if WW3 did happen. I don’t know what that would mean but it feels like madness after everyone has already been going through the collective trauma of corona virus. And the world keeps turning. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 9:41pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/6 "2022-02-25T21:41:50Z")
Making sense, making meaning. This brief dialogue seems to me to make sense of the double and triple binds that are triggered by Putin’s aggression. Hopefully, there are enough people on the planet who can co-regulate their nervous systems to de-activate the tensions. This was preventable. How do we re-negotiate this paranoic impasse that Putin is acting out of? I think it’s possible that we can find the stability to re-direct our attentions towards more ecological outcomes. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JFHN-8Adn98/hqdefault.jpg "Ukraine FLOATS Surrender To Vladimir Putin, Lt. Col. Davis: Ukraine Will Lose Otherwise: DEVELOPING") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFHN-8Adn98) ---
**Author:** ![madrush](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/madrush/32/6452_2.png) [@madrush](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/madrush)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 12:44am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/7 "2022-02-26T00:44:47Z")
Thanks, all. I feel like I’m getting up to speed on just how we got to this point; and I do hope that the fighting is limited in duration and doesn’t spill over. It sounds like NATO has been basically leading Ukraine along? Yet Ukraine also let themselves be led to believe that NATO membership was a possibility. It was a false hope, yet perhaps with a mix of fear and pride involved, post-traumatic memory and nationalist sentiment. And bad chess moves were made. How terrible to have to play the role of a buffer. It is heartbreaking to see the images coming out of Ukraine right now. I am still working on the inner peace. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 1:09am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/8 "2022-02-26T01:09:10Z")
**“The shadow becomes hostile only when it is ignored.” – Carl Jung** ![Light-and-Shadow-1080x721](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/5/5fbbb8c3c112dd75c2cd27c791082096ea126959.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![versa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/versa/32/8279_2.png) [@versa](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/versa)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 7:02am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/9 "2022-02-26T07:02:57Z")
I wouldn’t say Russia is a shadow… they are a massive country with distinctly different values and culture than many western nations. I’m also not sure how much I buy into Jung and psychoanalysts And apparently now the USA has a trucker convoy. Are you excited? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 10:55am UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/10 "2022-02-26T10:55:09Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3YeKU077M1w/maxresdefault.jpg "Civil Discourse: Becoming a Better Conversation Partner, Part 2: The Freedom to Listen") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YeKU077M1w) Starts at around 8:00 mins. Freedom To Listen: From The Inside Out Seems to Be what is “Needed”. Thank U for sharing your Come From Cindy. I come From the place there is a lot of"Complexity & Habitual Tendencies" working in all of us that is driven by "Uncertainty & the Consequences " of ; > [@madrush](#): > > We can feel it through the global nervous system of the world wide web. ![Indra's Net](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/4/4f01bab1a19f608282f088db5cfd4e3e42290c73.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 2:32pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/11 "2022-02-26T14:32:49Z")
> [@Michael\_Stumpf](#): > > I come From the place there is a lot of"Complexity & Habitual Tendencies" > working in all of us that is driven by "Uncertainty & the Consequences " “The Age of Anxiety is the result of trying to do today’s job with yesterday’s tools—with yesterday’s concepts.”–Marshall McLuhan I sense that you are trying, Michael, to find a “third”. It is easy to get polorized in such a violent situation as Ukraine and the ongoing invasion. And then there is the war on dissent. Glenn Greenwald, a reporter who leaked Edward Snowden’s material about the government spying on US citizens offers an alternate media source. He has been in many war zones. I trust him even as I am aware that he has a partial truth. No one has the whole truth. Crack downs need to be monitored carefully as they tend to create the conditions for what they are claiming they want to prevent. Holding these tensions lightly just long enough so that a “third” can emerge is a meta-skill. The US wants to crack down on Putin by freezing his assets the way Trudea did to the truckers. The suffering that these sanctions bring to the people will be felt by all of us as the world economy is on the verge of collapse. We are not in the one way communications loop of the big networks propoganda machines of the Cold War Era. We are Digital. This adds lot of intensity to our public discourse events which never existed before. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/mt9kcNPY-kQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Banishment from the Financial System: the War on Dissent") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt9kcNPY-kQ) ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/12 "2022-02-26T19:27:30Z")
John your Attention to ; > [@johnnydavis54](#): > > I sense that you are trying, Michael, to find a “third” is a good response to the Inner experience of this Human Being. To give some background in this regard,I share this as a influence upon me… > **[The Courage to Show Up — Cynthia Bourgeault](https://www.cynthiabourgeault.org/blog/2022/01/06/the-courage-to-show-up)** > > Enough is enough. It is time for us humans to collectively get a grip. It is not Omicron that is laying waste to the human race; it is our own massive panic and failure-of-nerve in the face of all it truly means to be human (like courage,... ![courage-is-resistance-to-fear-mastery-of-fear-not-absence-of-fear-mark-twain](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/e/ee9d113fdb3ec969a3fab92175e162ab12c08075.png) ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 3:34pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/13 "2022-02-27T15:34:53Z")
F-e-a-r. Forever evading another reality. I like Cynthia’s appeal to courage but she failed to mention that mono-causal theories end up in limbo eventually after doing much harm. We tend to live gazing into the rearview mirror. Scapegoating others who take another route to the Real is a dead end. We need dissent. And we are still among you even if you have taken a hundred and one booster shots. Humanity has been over medicalized. The medical model when applied to mental health is a disaster. Just pop another pill and get back to work. The vaccinated are on their way to becoming another GMO. And the CDC is hiding data from you because they don’t want to admit there are unknowable long term risks, and whistle blowers who expose this disinformation in the medical world are punished by parody and other punitive measures. The center will not hold. The war against the microbial world will be lost as our organic lives depend upon our co- existence with them. Attributing evil intents to a virus comes out of a medieval mind. We have collectively created conditions for poor health by bad diets, the overuse of antibiotics, medically created diseases, misdiagnosis, and now mandates that disrupt civil liberties all in effort to kill a virus rather than to eliminate toxic waste, fertilizers that destroy the top soil, and continue the fight over the fossil fuels that poison the atmosphere. Natural immunity is ignored in Cynthia’s justification for the way things are now. I do agree the egregore that the CDC has spawned has been around for a long time. I remember the AIDS epidemic. The same mono-causal logic applied then promoted by the same players. The problem, in my view, is that we rely on statistical averages to protect insurance companies and promote big pharma production. But a human being is not a statistical average. An average human being does not exist. And so we create the conditions for the next epidemic, ignoring our path dependencies, as we accept being barcoded in exchange for a psuedo security brought to you by the Military Industrial Infotainment Complex. When we offload our ethical commitments to State actors who are puppets for Big Tech we are in big trouble. I remain a hopeful pessimist. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/14 "2022-02-27T18:14:27Z")
In doing my best to embrace Free Listening & Receive your possible Felt Sense all I can express is the Images that arose with so doing(Hard Pivot) ![Hard Pivot](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/f/f611a7be135fcd7968ac249fb7cfe8e1003e39de.jpeg) ![Hard Pivot #2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/1/1dfb4a5017d06c6be655b1666903dee9db715fe4.jpeg) and from Stone Age Brain & the War Metaphor; > **[War Propaganda: It's an Old Story (Video) | History News Network](https://historynewsnetwork.org/blog/154585?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email)** > > \How war incubates propaganda.\ In Al-Ways I am Grateful for our Call /Response John even if we have some Shades of Difference. I Feel & agree with You certain Powers our not helping…in Fact they our using their Influence/Power for their own Interest…with that said my Come From is To Do my Best to Listen to the Voice of Dissent even as it is surrounded by “Many,Many of similar Tone” and I Have to Regulate the Lived Experience of NOT KNOWING!, if I am Hearing the Content of the Message Clearly & not being Distracted by the Tone ( the Tone is Important,just not all of the message…One thing when I was married that I needed to take responsibility for is how I received my Wife’s Tone when we disagreed,it could make for “A War of Roses”). I am not sure I move with being a Pessimist or Optimist, it’s more ; ![life-is-like-bike-einstein](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/2/2d6959bfd45fc5ecefd43ee12a9f104435349cb3.png) ---
**Author:** ![madrush](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/madrush/32/6452_2.png) [@madrush](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/madrush)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/15 "2022-02-27T19:31:56Z")
War on terror War on drugs Cold War Civil war Cyber war War for your soul War on dissent War in Ukraine War in Yemen War in Somalia War in Syria War in Taiwan War in Palestine World War 3 War on disease War on germs War on the microbial kingdom Fog of war Blood of war False glory of war Pointless destruction of war Spoils of war War machine War reparations War metaphors War novels War stories War correspondents War movies & TV shows War epics War in heaven War wounded War weary War refugees War casualties The war of the worlds The war to end all wars Narrative warfare Asymmetrical warfare Autonomous war Drone wars Spiritual warefare War for hearts and minds Poet warrior A war of words A war of art A sword of compassion War for a woman War for oil War for land War for resources War for revenge War on humanity— Fix your mind on the Lord and fight! Holy war Dogs of war War to defend the fatherland War for the future War for the children War drums War games Rumors of war Declaring war Going to war Marching off to war Making war Nuclear war In God/Allah we trust— Economic warfare Financing war Banking on war Betting on war Selling war Profiting from war Buying war bonds Paying war taxes Prepping for war On a war footing At war with your neighbor War between good an evil War on poverty War of the sexes Social justice warrior Race war Info wars Future of warfare War simulations War images War souvenirs War monuments War battlefields War history War heroes & villains War statistics War crimes War tribunals In times of war In love and war… The art of war Peace and war Star Wars Wartime president War draft War volunteers War soldiers War civilians War protests Wartime broadcast Make love not war At war with war War is over if you want it War is the mother of everything War is a force that gives us meaning War on war ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 10:14pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/16 "2022-02-27T22:14:24Z")
> [@Michael\_Stumpf](#): > > I am not sure I move with being a Pessimist or Optimist, it’s more In the context of the Pandemic, I am pessimistic. The medicalization process has tipped the system and what I feared the most would happen has happened. The next pandemic is probably on it’s way and more of the same seems unlikely to make a dent in the infrastructure of the planet which can be found in the wet sand along the beach,teeming with tiny microbial forms. I’m quite pessimistic that a turn around can occur, now, acidification of the oceans , rising temps, die offs, etc. That doesn’t stop me from making efforts to articulate alternatives even if I don’t expect a turn around. Small networks of committed persons can make a difference but trying to prop up our current failing status quo seems delusional. I do like Cynthia and consider her a wise person. We can still differ with those we deem wise. > [@Michael\_Stumpf](#): > > the Tone is Important The tone of the vaccinated towards the unvaccinated has not been gentle. We are not allowed to dine in public or enter a theater. Signs are everywhere telling us to stay out. Mandates have led to the termination of employment and now Trudeau declared emergency powers and freezes bank accounts. The tone is harsh. A polarized population will not be kind to what it fears as an opposite. I live in New York City, once a beacon of light to the oppressed. It is not that any longer. Other governments have changed strategy and these osscillations will probably continue for awhile. But much damage has been done to institutions. “Holding the tension between opposites is not easy. Sometimes it can feel like you are going mad. To be in the uncertainy of both/and feels particularly uncomfortable.” Lisa Maroski ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Stumpf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/michael_stumpf/32/9139_2.png) [@Michael\_Stumpf](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/Michael_Stumpf)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 10:42pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/17 "2022-02-27T22:42:34Z")
> [@johnnydavis54](#): > > The tone is harsh. A polarized population will not be kind to what it fears as an opposite. > > “Holding the tension between opposites is not easy. Sometimes it can feel like you are going mad. To be in the uncertainy of both/and feels particularly uncomfortable.” Lisa Maroski YES I AGREE John And I Do MY Best to Work with that Harshness with Family,Friends & Myself…I have Spoken against that Harshness ( I have gotten the Vaccine & Booster,that’s my personal wager & I don’t expect others to agree or to argue for It), It seems we are getting a VERY RAW Experience of Just how we are not as Separate from each other Or the Meta(Beyond). With the ones who choose differently I ask that they practice Safety Protocols ( I have to Trust my Judgement when it comes to them saying they Do). Holding the Tension is Learned Skill…From my Lived Experience I am at different degrees of Skillfulness on any given day…add to my own skillfulness the different degrees of Others going Through This… The Intensity is Doing It’s Work on All of Us! All this is To Say I Feel-See the Mess & I in some small Way will do my Best not to Support the Kind of FEARFUL STUPIDITY U so Well Express! ![Alex_Grey-Praying](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/original/2X/c/c01a95c1a9ed55571ce3e89d847c0db6c2210cc6.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![madrush](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/madrush/32/6452_2.png) [@madrush](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/madrush)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/18 "2022-03-01T16:56:46Z")
I am noting the overwhelming sentiment of unity being portrayed, particularly among European and mainstream American positions (along with Canada, Japan, and many other countries), against Putin’s brazen act of aggression in Ukraine: > **['A new Europe' united against Russia — even neutral Switzerland](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/-new-europe-united-russia-even-neutral-switzerland-rcna18028)** > > Germany, Switzerland and Sweden set aside historic nonaggression policies to join a united European front against Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It is as if the specter of WW2 (and possibly WW3) has awakened a massive, global immune reaction to Putin’s invasion. Suddenly, we (the people of the modern mental/rational nation-states with a concept of democracy) are all united again. It is similar to the feeling I remember being created in the media after 9/11, which “[reversed into](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/laws-of-media-the-tetrad-cosmos-cafe-2022-02-03/5196)” the Iraq War. Moreover, Ukrainian president Zelenskyy and his team are setting a good example for the rest of us of how integral leaders might behave when at their best, and the suffering of the people fleeing their homes, hiding out in subway shelters, lining up at border crossings, is there for all the world to see. Satellites in low orbit tracking convoys and troop movements. Google maps showing destroyed bridges, smoking ruins of civilian infrastructure which cost countless human hours and precious natural resources to build. Everything Russian is now cancelled. Business, sports, travel, diplomacy—switched off like that. The ruble plummeting in value, runs on banks, protest and repression, chaos and confusion. The Russian people dragged into ruin again by a psychopathic czar. Where are we going with all this? I am a recalling a [discussion some members of this forum had](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/generations-i/3135) with Davor Löffler, which introduced me to the theory of [Maximal Stress Cooperation](https://epdf.pub/msc-maximal-stress-cooperation-the-driving-force-of-cultures.html), of which we we seem to be living through a perfect example. I have long felt that digital media in general is a _militarized zone_—how does this effect how we communicate, who we seem to be, and how we make ourselves known to each other in a time of war? ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/19 "2022-03-01T18:14:56Z")
> [@madrush](#): > > I have long felt that digital media in general is a _militarized zone_ —how does this effect how we communicate, who we seem to be, and how we make ourselves known to each other in a time of war? “World War III is a guerrilla information war with no division between military and civilian participation.”-Mcluhan I feel small groups of creative researchers can do much to enhance, retrieve, modify and obselesce the media that they have access to and can influence. As Putin is now in a war of all against all he appears to have drunk the kool aid he served up to others. At this point he has no choice but to charge into chaos, much like Macbeth, into the jaws of death, basing his delusion upon the three witches mischief making and that is a great danger. He will take down a lot of innocents. The West has temporarily united against an existential threat but what are they for? Peaceful co-existence is the rhetoric they use but they act like selfish bullies, too, when they get a chance. Putin holds the mirror up to our own collusive nature. Oh what a web we weave. If only when the wall fell that Bush, Clinton and the neo-libs had offered a helping hand to a fallen opponent then we would not have this problem now. They made a stupid mistake for we had a rare chance to turn a foe into an ally as we did with Germany and Japan. But we acted like pigs in shit and that I fear will not be reversing anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydavis54](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/infiniteconversations/user_avatar/www.infiniteconversations.com/johnnydavis54/32/114_2.png) [@johnnydavis54](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/u/johnnydavis54)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226/20 "2022-03-02T19:30:57Z")
> [@madrush](#): > > It sounds like NATO has been basically leading Ukraine along? Yet Ukraine also let themselves be led to believe that NATO membership was a possibility. It was a false hope, yet perhaps with a mix of fear and pride involved, post-traumatic memory and nationalist sentiment. How do we use history in the Digital Age when there is so much fakery? I remember Cohen’s unheard pleas to pay attention to Putin. We didn’t listen then and it appears that none or few are listening now . We may have to twist in the wind for awhile in an uncontained no fly zone in the windmills of Putin’s wierd symbolic landscape. Number # I rule of diplomacy. Know the mind of your adversary. President Clinton was too busy making mudpies with Monica Lewnski and hanging out with sex slave traffickers to pay attention to our collective future(s). The Bush Presidents were obsessed with irational exuberance at the Collapse of the Soviets. Proffessor Cohen appears now as if he understood McLuhan’s tetradic communication theory quite well. Oh the webs we weave when acting out of extremes that are reversed into what we have ignored and denied. Nothing fails like success. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/MY3JsqVR_04/hqdefault.jpg "Kim Iversen: ”Ukraine Will Be Wrecked." OMINOUS Warnings Of NATO-Provoked War Given For DECADES") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY3JsqVR_04&t=72) [Next page](https://www.infiniteconversations.com/t/war/5226.md?page=2)