Week 5: Intermission, and thoughts on a post WoO Project

Hi readers!

As we enter our 5th week, here in February, we begin our a week of pause – suspension between going forward as we reflect on what we’ve read, anticipating what is yet to come (and, of course, what is latent in those yet-unturned pages of section 2).

This is a dramatic way of saying that we’re hitting our break week now. This is a time to catch up on the reading if you need to, to read ahead, or to review the text.

We won’t be holding live Hangouts this Tuesday or Thursday. But I think now is a good time to brush up on the conversation threads happening here on IC.

What else? Well, one more big thing…

Post-WoO thoughts, or what to do with all this material

Marco, Natalie and I have been thinking. Once Winter of Origins is over, meaning once we get to the end of the book, what do we do with all this material? All these conversations, hangouts, and supplementary reading / research suggestions that we’ve collectively assembled here?

The thought is that we turn this into some kind of post-WoO project, and offer it as a kind of educational series, or research hypertext, for future readers who will come to Gebser’s writings looking for a place to start.

We thought of doing this in a few ways, but I’d like to hear from everyone interested. Your suggestions and ideas are welcome.

  • An online class: a team of us can sit down and organize the Hangouts, edit and assemble weekly materials (posts we’ve written here or elsewhere on WoO, or even new materials) into a serialized anthology to accompany reading EPO. Additional materials and media you’d be interested in providing would also be encouraged. Registrants will receive all this material over a period of 8 weeks or so, as they progress along in the book, and the IC Winter of Origins category will be active year round.

  • An anthology: Similar to the class, we’d compile materials from the IC threads, new materials and essays from participants who’d like to contribute a) articles b) essays c) creative and poetic works or d) study guides. This would become a downloadable e-book we’d offer as our first foray into digital publishing. This project works well with the first one, the online class, and will likely be a part of the first suggestion regardless.

What else? Any ideas, suggestions, or concepts you’d like to share?


Thanks Jeremy for your invitation to this initiation into the Bird Kingdom. I have lots of WoO feelings about this book that has become lighter and more spacious as I have reached the half way point. I am glad we are taking the break now to catch up. I feel like I have reached the summit and now look back and look forward, I can slide down the slippery slope, with a good sense of balance, a balance between chaos and order and I can pause and really enjoy the art galleries and the poetry readings up ahead. The excellent hangouts and comments by other readers have helped me orient myself, even when I get a bit disoriented. And other recent readings from related materials seem to make much more sense to me now. This book has become a very nutritious reading, with lots of fiber!


A report from last nights dream. A little background. Before bed I was reading Kripal and Strieber’s new book The Super Natural and was wondering about the weird and uncanny borderland areas I have explored.

In a dream I saw a map of the world and was intrigued by shifts in my awareness as I went from an observer of the map to an actual person on the ground. I bounced around from an island off the coast of Africa to the Nile River to the frozen tundra of Siberia. I was getting fast intuitive experiences from several characters all at the same time. Then I was sitting in the back seat of a car in broad day light in an Amercan city smoking heroin with two other men. The effects of the experience were not that interesting to me. I had never tried the drug before and I felt that compared to dream states it had little appeal.

Then I entered another dream location, a communal setting, brightly lit, and a comfortable vibe. I was reclining on bed with a plate of food that I was eating while watching TV. Marco was sitting on the right side of the bed eating off of a stack tray. There was a feeling of informality and well being. Then Jeremy entered the room and sat on the left side of the bed and addressed me." Hey, John, I loved your article on Lucid Dreaming. I want you to do some work on that."

" You did?" I was pleased by Jeremy’s warm response but I was confused for I could not recall writing an article about that topic. I woke up with a sense of amusement. The dream of course felt so real and yet the content of the dream was from some Imaginal realm, perhaps from the realm of Infinite Possibilities, actualized already, but who knows?.

Reflecting on this dream I am noticing that I was making contrasts and comparisons between dream states and waking states. I was also aware upon awakening that the dream was referencing lucid dreaming but was not a lucid dream.

This raises a question about what specifies a lucid dream from a non lucid dream? And this reminds me of a book I read by Georg Feuerstein called LUCID WAKING. Others are making this kind of possibility happen, I am thinking of Robert Waggoner, Jürgen Ziewe, Rory MacSweeney, researchers who are going way beyond what Freud and Jung were doing.

I want to sponsor the possibility of a more polyphasic culture and I imagine a move into Gebser’s Aperspectival would embrace such a move and his work is in many ways a demonstration of that process. We could start to embrace that Border- landers ( not to be confused with Borderlines) may have loosened up the grip of the mental deficient as more works that bridge the gulf between academe and popular culture co-arise. We are beginning to wake up out of Newton’s Sleep as Blake once predicted.

So I have lots of data I have gathered over the years and I could start to theorize loosely about what it is all about. I just thought I would put this out on the table and expect that material will start to re-organize in a way to fit our tempo rhythms in this newly emerging mutation.

Blessings upon this possibility!


@johnnydavis54 - I think it’s interesting that in your dream I was sitting on the right side of the bed and then Jeremy sat on the left.

Perhaps this is because I am contributing a structure to the overall project, whereas Jeremy is offering an invitation.

I think your writing on lucid dreaming/waking could make a great feature in our journal/magazine Metapsychosis—with dialogue flowing into the forum and vice versa and all around. In fact, Jeremy is working on a kind of vision statement for the online publication, which he’s combining with editorial notes and poetics I had previously composed, and which we intend to post here sometime soonish. We’re planning to open an incubator category in the forum, as well, to promote interplay of ideas among potentially contributing writers.

Perhaps @Oliver_Rabinovitch might even be inspired to riff on your thoughts, scenes, images, inquiries, or fascinations through some visual form. It’d be fun to record some conversations, too. :slightly_smiling:

Blessings, indeed, upon these possibilities!


Yes Marco I think that is interesting observation about the positions and
the left and right sides of the brain mind. I am very interested in these
developments whatever you and Jeremy are developing and look forward to
generative collaborations.

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Just wanted to add to this topic that @Oliver_Rabinovitch has been compiling notes and synopses on the first batch of hangouts. They’re still in a somewhat unrefined state—and of course the hangouts themselves were not necessarily neat and orderly explorations (which is part of their charm)—but nonetheless, the notes go some ways towards indicating and summarizing the ground we’ve covered so far. He’s also extracted audio so we can make the material podcast-friendly, and I’d like to post this on InfiniteConversations.fm, so folks can listen without having to be in front of a screen. (Just need to make the time, after getting through a couple other tasks.)

The more I think about, the more I realize that people will want to follow in our snow tracks in future years, but only if we can structure the material in a way that makes it searchable, findable, and followable. I’m not 100% sure how to do that quite yet, but thought I’d mention some of the work that’s already been done toward the goal of “evergreening” our scholarly and creative efforts here.

Oli, maybe you could post the Google Docs links here, so whoever might feel moved to can collaborate and/or the material could contribute toward to a future course or other offering?

Yes, let’s wiki them up. Here’s the first three hangouts:




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After this is over, I’m finishing up a class with Antero Alli and another with Howard Rheingold. Then, I’m taking a deep-breath…

I’ve been continuously learning for almost the last decade, since I started on my path towards my Bachelor’s in Psychology. So, this change in ‘direction’ that I am going to undertake after the above classes conclude, is a big thing for me. Instead of learning, I’m shifting to (re)collecting, summarizing, integrating, and creating* (growing out of?) everything I’ve learned over the past 10 years. It feels like a breath, because it will, ideally, be at a very relaxed pace, on my own schedule, with no hard-deadlines, as opposed to the strictly regimented class schedules where I am accountable to others.

I mention this here, because one of the integration/summarization I’ve been thinking about tinkering with is writing a ‘Ever-Present Origin for Dummies/Cliffnotes’ type text. This may be something I start on immediately, or it may happen much further down the road. It depends mainly one which way I decided to start tackling the volumes of materials and notes I’ve collected over the course of my educational journey.

In any case, it seemed to dovetail with some of the above potentialites. So, I thought I’d throw it out here, to see what happened.

If there was any sort of collaborative work that ensued, be forewarned, that I, as I indicated, am in no rush and have no interest in ensnaring myself into any obligatory calendars. So, whatever was to be done would have to be done by virtue of it’s own time. :slightly_smiling:


That’s great to hear Zaq. I’ve been intuiting a similar thing, an EPO summary or synopsis. I’ve been selecting highlights as I’ve been reading, with the intent to summarize something. Certainly no rushing on anything, just wanted to echo the desire to create something along those lines, for now. cheers!

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Let me offer a concrete idea about how I think a “Gebser online course” could work.

Image 9–12 “modules,” each of which has any number of individuals topics or lessons.

For example, each chapter of the book might be its own module or the course could be divided in whatever way makes the most sense.

Topics dive deep into specific ideas and can include reading assignments, video, or audio, with links to dedicated discussion threads here on the forum.

A core team of “guides” will make the editorial/pedagogical/curational decisions regarding the “arrangement of intensities,” i.e., topics or lessons.

A student goes through the course in a self-paced way, but there are also some regular live events that the guides are responsible for maintaining, e.g., a bi-weekly hangout or webinar. They also moderate the forum discussion.

The course is open-source and free to enroll in, but a monthly supporting contribution is encouraged, e.g. $15/month or $75 for the entire course.

We set a goal of $X/month (and/or one time) in fundraising—which directly supports the Guides according to the 70/30 ToE cooperative formula, i.e., 70% of income goes to the Guides and 30% goes to the platform to help sustain overall operations.

The Guides in effect form their own self-organized “syndicate” (in holacratic-anarchist fashion) to determine who does what and when, and how to apportion resources.

I can help set up the course infrastructure on theoryofeverybody.com.

The course can be ever-evolving—new modules or lessons being added as they are produced.

The Guides can draw on existing material (e.g., the hangouts), solicit new material, crowdsource content, bring in guest presenters, etc. Syndicate --> Systasis --> Synaireses.

All I think we’d need to get started is the basic framework or “arrangement” and a 2–3 topics in each module.

As new topics are added, students can go back and explore. There is no such thing, necessarily, as being “finished” (one could feasibly spend an entire year or two with the material), but a suggested pace of one module every two weeks might be suggested, and reminder emails can be timed and content “dripped” accordingly. (We have the technology already to do this.)

In this way, I think we can begin with a simple framework and add to it over time. In other words, the course doesn’t need to be a 100% complete product to begin with, but could grow (and increase in quality/value) as new material is added.

PS. I’ll have more to say about this “syndicate” idea, but think of these as functional cells, or self-governing/self-organizing teams in symbiotic relationship with the larger “organism” which is A Theory of Everybody.

The Gebser Syndicate might include both Guides as well as production assistance, e.g., for video and audio or design work. They could also come up with their own name and identity on the platform, e.g., Synidcate of Origins or whatever. :wink:


Sweet Jesus, that’s something we can do with this infinity. Institutional outlines in this. Love this concretion, my friend. :slight_smile:

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@madrush I find myself both deeply drawn and repelled by this idea. It is very close, nearly identical in structure, to an vision I’ve been nourishing since last summer.

It has three interrelated structures based around the concept of OpenIntegral: a grant foundation, a research network, and an educational framework.

Of course, what connects most clearly here is the educational component. At the core, the vision I’ve been playing with consists of an ‘Intro to Integral’ course that, over time, can be unpacked into 'sub’courses that would unfold into a comprehensive, open, organized, integrally informed, integral curriculum that is generative, adaptive (self-correcting), and accessible to widest swath of people possible. This moves me.

My core ethical motivation here is: the greatest depth for the greatest span(1).

So, if I’m so stoked, why am I also repelled?

What I’m working on is deep,multi-layered, with many moving parts, and, at this point, is not much more than a loose framework of open questions. I don’t, yet, know how to organize these questions in a way that is coherently presentable. And, to top it off, I haven’t decided the order, degree, and timing I want to unveil these questions and propositions and to whom(2)(3). In this, primarily, I am trying to avoid getting other’s hopes up, making time/energy commitments I will either regret or won’t keep, and stretching myself too thin.

In contrast, at this point, my life is taking a turn towards something resembling the opposite of all of the above: scheduless, non-committal, easy, unneeded, openness. I’ve never had a space this free looming so close in my life and am looking forward to it. So, I’m trying my damndest not to fall off the bandwagon and become needed again. :smile:

However, the parallels between the project you are proposing and what I have been considering are so similar that I felt it would be unbecoming of me not to comment on it. So, here we go…lets see what happens (or not). :slightly_smiling:

(1) This vision initially came about as a response, in large part, to a number of lacks I perceived in attempts to do something similar. I won’t name names here, and there are quite a few lacks. One of the biggest, given my ethical motivation, is the high price tag placed on many of these course that would make them inaccessible to most of humanity. Not to mention, it also doesn’t make sense from a from a pragmatic, marketing standpoint if those embedded in a postmodern worldview are also those that are most likely to make the jump to Integral. They are also the most likely to be cynical about high prices and attracted to a more open ethos. But, I digress…

(2)This is actually the first time I’ve tried articulating any of this outside a very very small group of super intimates.

(3)I just realized that one of the first (social) things I may need to do is identify a small group of trusted folk to do feasibility explorations and help me flesh out the basic structure. (Writing this mainly as note to self.)