Commencement of EST Magicians

Back story:

Recent conversation has allowed members of the metamind group to have access to certain technical assistance (mainly access to the Zoom account under CosmosHost). Thus far, @Geoffreyjen_Edwards has set up a Readers Underground group that will utilize the CosmosHost Zoom account. Yesterday, @johnnydavis54, @patanswer and I set up a Clean Language Session which doubled as an Eastern US timezone friendly Cosmos Café session, allowing certain individuals who cannot attend the MDT Cafés to participate (see comments below , beginning with “Hello, TJ” for a sort of backstory).

During the final minutes of the Clean Language Session, we agreed that we would love to begin a regular meeting (hence the nifty title of EST Magicians coined by Johnny) that would not have to rely on @madrush to be burdened by logistics and technostics. This can be weekly, monthly, a spontaneously planned session. Though still in “trial and error” format, the idea is for anyone that is a Co-op member to bring forth their interests and insight to create and co-create new forms of learning and communication.

Hello TJ,

It was suggested by the group in last night’s Writers Underground that we go with Gidley for the next Cafe. It was also suggested that I put together the Cafe webpage for next week. It was a reluctant “sure, why not?” I have only read the Introduction and Appendix C of “The Evolution of Consciousness as a Planetary Imperative.” There are definite connections to Gebsers “Grammatical Mirror” and even to our latest Sloterdijk reading (starting at p.744 in Globes: Rosenstock-Huessy’s “generalized Holy Spirit of language” and the “regression to the earliest stages of language”… Rosenstock:“It is unthinkable that what we do when we speak is any different from what the people of all periods have done;” Sloterdijk: From this perspective, the entire Archaic period and the Old World become an introductory course in full speech."

Since you are typically unable to attend, I would prefer to have you suggest the readings, since you are the only fine soul who has completed the Gidley paper. Any thoughts?


Gidley is very well organized as a writer, so the “Summary and Relevance for Today” endings of each chapter would be good discussion starters. It would be really cool if the elders could ‘role play’ a bit: Ed is your Gebser guy, John has looked at Steiner recently, and Marco has worked with Wilber, so a kind of living dialogue might be fun and instructive.
But I think the greatest bang-for-buck (to use that tired expression) are those Appendices (A on time, B on space, and C on language). Each could easily be a session, and even a general exchange of thought on what have been three major themes of the Café would be good. What progress do we think we have made since 2007 on understanding these things (for example, how might Kerri Welsh’s “fractal” time fit in here)? Do we and if yes to what extent agree with Gidley’s Conclusion sections? etc

Are you guys sure you don’t want to wait for me to get another Tuesday off? :cry:


We mainly made the decision so we could have closure, as John recommends, yet our flexibility, even in our old age, remains one of our strong points. I’m sure others are open to saving the best drinks until you can arrive.
Can we perhaps introduce evening (by EST) Cafes? We can still have the Cosmos Cafe as is; the evening session could be a reading of the same material but a different group of individuals, or one does Appendix A…the other C…etc.

No problem. I was half-kidding of course; I fully agree that the building momentum is important and good.
And we are tentatively on for the 11th? I’m sure we’ll have Gidley ‘pop in’ at some point…


Unable to attend today’s conversation.

I’ll be available tomorrow night for @johnnydavis54’s evening session. Should we set up a separate topic page for this gathering, John? …or just make sure I provide …a link?


I would like to make this meet up happen on the 11th. Please remind me of when and is there a zoom link? I am fine with developing these themes. I think Gidley is a very good source.

Hi there,

Cosmos Host is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Topic: Clean Language - Reading
Time: Apr 11, 2018 8:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
ZOOM Link: Launch Meeting - Zoom


Great! When we get together we can do a clean start. I am sure we have plenty to share as we have been very busy with Gidley. Perhaps we can consider ourselves the Eastern Standard Time Magicians?

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I may not be able to attend, but I would very interested in hearing the talk afterwards, so I hope it will be recorded. Of course, I am happy to provide any technical support…Doug, feel free to chat me as needed.

…the most magic I can muster up from my wand is a miniscule puff of smoke. Still feeling like a fool over here!

@madrush: I believe the only issue to arise will be uploading the recording. I’ll wave the Marco wand if need be :mage:


I just finished Chapter 7 yesterday, so I finally got this reference. LOL*

The risk of my missing something is, as ever, great, but I’m not sure I buy this from Rosenstock because of the inherent contradiction between “regression to the earliest stages” and the presumed lack of difference among “people of all periods”.

We all communicate. But what does “full speech” mean and when can this be measured - and by whom? Evolution/emergence of consciousness assumes that different experiences and conceptions of space-time will lead to differing expressions of varying complexity. (And no reason to assume “we” represent any pinnacle.)
More later, I guess, if current plans hold…

*(I should be enjoying Globes more, especially as an amateur student of history, but I am not. It seems every chapter since 4 has been… just too long. I shall be very glad to retire Sloterdijk for a while after next month.)


My computer picking this precise moment to act up - I hope to join you shortly… :rage:

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No worries…personally had a tech glitch. Let us know if you need a link.

“Here goes nothin’…”


Video recording is ready for upload under CosmosHost: Clean Language - Reading (803-501-423)…I think Johnny was Clean Languaging/Modelling at his best! We will post some new models for you soon.


Wow! TJ is self-modeling here and this gives me lots of ideas for a next wave of co-modeling projects. I try to put my gut feels into words. I am using the ’ as if ’ construct, as I mention in the session.

As we move towards a greater group coherence ( the reconstructive phase) we will be ( I imagine) internalizing more and more research from very different sources. This internalizing and externalizing allows us to move through abstractions and concresences without bumping our heads on any glass ceilings.

How we make the most of our collaborative capacities is up to each of us. Everything we can know has a size or shape, even if it is invisible, and outside awareness. Translating the invisible, to the visible is a skill we all have since childhood. It is called drawing, dancing, singing, laughing. So I imagine that as we become more adept at sharing our mapping process, linking words to gestures we re-educate ourselves out of the factory model most of us got stuck in, and we will also enjoy some belly laughs as TJ demonstrated in our session. Belly laughing is a sign that integrating the paradox of knowing who we are in relationship to others is happening. Knowledge sharing becomes a great joy! It dont mean a thing if it aint got that swing! It is that tickle you get when you loop through the Klein bottle and know the place for the first time.

I look forward to exploring more at the edge of our infinite conversations. Much thanks TJ!


Thanks, Doug, for your gentle presence and high quality attention. I actually was a little nervous last night at the beginning of the session as I felt myself really challenged by this work. Theory is easy, modeling is hard!

As I trust the process and pay attention the nervous quality (a healthy kind of stage fright) relaxes and the field of all possibilities unfolds before our eyes. As we become more tuned into the weave of the fabric as the various strands come together we can allow that the ’ I’ that is’ we’ starts to communicate a size and a shape. There is a very pleasant transition to alternate ways of shared knowing. It is a shared altered state of consciousness without any drugs!

I look forward to viewing your map in the gallery here and I have a drawing, too, that I want to post in response to TJ’s well timed question. When I am reading at my best it is like an out of body experience…

And thanks for making this suggestion of making this kind of session a monthly routine. This would be for me a dream fully realized.

A monthly magical map mapping workshop for Magicians from any time zone? Bring your own Klein bottle. Perhaps we can develop this further?


Original Tapestry from Clean Language Session:

When Reading Best:


You’re now officially a moderator on the forum, @Douggins, and should be able to convert the post following these instructions:

Do you have a title and brief description for the video meta-data? I have it downloaded from Zoom and ready to post.

I feel you on this. I just spent the night on the single (actually, already relatively clear) idea of the end of solar ‘emanation’ and communicative ‘representation’ from a single (divinely) authorized center. The deeper we go into these books, the more I feel that Spheres is almost nothing more than an elaborate post-mortem for a couple millennia of fantasies of European cultural hegemony.

It was doomed from the start! says Sloterdijk, but didn’t we already know that? And what happens next? I’m still hearing crickets from old Slotty on that last question.

But I digresss…