Kinder words were never spoken …
My third person understanding of this inter personal expression is played out at the edge of an abyss. It is windy and cold. Ed, from his perspective, is playing it out in a cozy tavern with lots of brew.
Ed and John both have a strong internal frame. The ‘I’ tells what the 'I ’ knows. And both of them knows that when the ‘I’ tells what it knows the 'I ’ also tells what it’s limitations are. This is a shared self awareness.
John has a strong internal frame and gives priority attention to the Other. He cares a lot for Ed and the Group. He is motivated by what the Group needs in the future.
Ed gives priority to the Self. " And what makes you so confident!?" He demands in a previous dialogue. He seems to have plenty of time. He values freedom to play with friends, now.
From John’s perspective there is much danger. And they are running out of time. John values the safety of the group. He values work on the behalf of the group.
Ed values understanding. He asks why. John values action. He asks how.
Ed is in Time. John is through Time. He is future oriented and Ed is in the present.
Understanding someone else’s understanding is an _understanding of understanding, an understanding that recursively embeds another’s understanding in one’s own, even when these understandings disagree, contradict, or thought by one to be unethical.
Davor Loefler would call this kind of movement a Second Order Culture, which I believe is what I am going to use in the future, rather than Integral theory.
I have, after reading Gebser and Sri Aurobindo and Wilber, felt that Integral theory isn’t working. I am ready to change gears and find alternates. Second Order Culture takes the lead as we are now dealing with the Virtual Spaces that current Technology is accelerating. A new theory needs articulation and new practices are creating new kinds of tensions and possibility. Gebser and Sri Aurobindo are not up for this as wise and interesting as they truly are and worthy of much study.
All of the above can always be revised.
Ed, had asked me, what gives you such confidence? This is a response.
This report is about Cosmic Time and the Human Conflict between Manifest and Scientific Image. I posted it in the Social Dreaming section but I also feel it is relevant to this conversation and previous ones as well. The report could be framed in different ways.
It occurred last night, and I was in a lucid state, of sound mind and body. The events happened all at once but I have of necessity tried to give it a logic based upon common English usage. The experience was triggered by listening to ambient sounds of New York traffic at night while breathing lightly into energy centers, mostly the throat center. Although the events described happened all at once, the events unfolded over a couple of hours of clock time. Interiors unfold into interiors and exteriors in ways that are not easy to put into words. Please listen with the Third Ear.
A Lucid Dream Report
-I am in a room with a big crowd. I recognize persons from a place I used to work thirty years ago. I greet these persons and recognize that this is a dream state. I suggest to one of the persons that we have sex in one of the offices. He agrees. I am very amused. I ask the group," Does everyone know this is a lucid dream?" The figures become distorted, mere thought forms. And as the dream fades and I return to the earth body and wonder why I wasted the lucidity to play a sly joke, I return my attention to the soft sounds of traffic and my throat center and I return to a lucid state and have a long and intense series of highly lucid states. These are dreams that are bathed in a clear light. They are in a non linear flow but I have made every effort to take them into a sequence that is understandable to others. As this is an alternate encounter I feel it is about the social spaces we are co-creating here.
I am told telepathically by a higher intelligence that everything that the ‘I’ tells is a limitation on reality.
I am on a great journey on a strange loop in a vast space. The atmosphere shimmers in a fine light. My subtle body and the road I travel are shimmering and made by a vast intelligence that is connected to my own. I realized I was in a symbolic landscape acting out a new kind of topology. I knew that I had taken a wrong turn and had to retrace my path to the original mistake. I was calm, centered and serious. This was a vague awareness of where the error in my journey occurred but this is an area of curves, great mile long curves. No straight lines.
I see a drama unfold in a large hologram. Two men, Afro American , an established officer and a young recruit are in the military, and having a love affair. The younger man is dressed in marine blues. They are standing face to face, gigantic, in a field of energy, that is very intense. I watch this scene at a distance and feel that it is a cosmic drama of great importance.
I continue on my journey trying to find the place where the roads crossed and I took the wrong turn. The road, the loop, is shining and I can take each step mindfully and inside the loop I can see many angularities that capture other kinds of time signatures. I can keep track of several times at the same time.
I am in beautiful empty suite of rooms, with my friend, Seth, and I tell him of a great juxtaposition that has occurred. Two times had arrived and we ( he and I) had entered through a choice into one of those times, and ‘I’ can remember that choice. I am aware that Seth is a magician and I can download his practice for we are in a high trust zone where we can be transparent to one another. We have practiced for a couple of years using clean language. I am registering the effects of that practice on another level. I look at the light blue walls which I am free to decorate in anyway I want. We are working on this together. The rooms are bathed in celestial light and I can see in the distance the horizon of the ocean and clear blue skies. I make a gesture, hands above my head, palms facing each other, about a foot apart, and I say," From there I can make contact with God. But this God, above my head, that the gesture indicates is not a location that I can make visible. The contact is less in the visual system but is more conveyed through an auditory, kinesthetic dynamic. Hence the Invisible God but a God that is Real though hidden from most humanity in this Objectifying zone. " Seth leaves and I am alone and in a room high up in the air, a single cushion near a window that I can lie down upon and gaze into the light sky. A can imagine in a wall a future window that I can design. It is a long vertical rectangle shape and I will make it with stained glass. I contemplate the beauty of the empty room.
I am playing catch with a light ping pong ball. It bounces across the floor and I catch it and return it to my partner. He is a beautiful black man, radiant with energy, like the young soldier, and we are in this synergistic sphere of intelligences that includes many others who are playing various games. There is a feeling of great formality, serenity, total perfection, in our movement.
I am a woman, narrating a story to a man. She tells the man that he can enter the past and the future and return to the present. She says that she then can write it down. She/ I open her purse. The purse is empty.
I am traveling in a great space on a highway. The ocean is on the left.A woman is driving the car and she is asking clean questions. I am in the back seat with an old childhood friend, that I have broken up with… I tell her that I forgive but that I wont forget. She is seated on the left side. She is tuning into the vastness of the ocean and we are both aware of her conflict as she moves in and out of difficult scenarios. My heart breaks. I hold her my arms and touch her soft skin and declare that I will always protect her. I weep,
John as I sit in a Coffee Cafe’ named Crave in Riverside,California…& listen with Third Ear, a Tenderness of Energy is Playing & a Gratefulness in Receiving this Expression from You.
Oh I almost forgot. A questionnaire arrives in the celestial room, written upon beautiful paper in elegant script with drawings. It is sent by , Penny, one of my mentors in Clean Language. The questionnaire is composed of clean questions. It is conveyed to me that there is a retreat area that is being organized in upstate New York. The work that I had been assigned to do in this cycle has been completed, satisfactorily. I see, on a map, the retreat area. And then I see it through a kind of remote viewing. It is upstate New York, north of Manhattan.
I am also made aware of the physiology that accompanies lucid states. I can almost but not quite make this happen at will. It is a highly paradoxical state but it can be imprinted in the flesh, divinizing, as Sri Aurobindo might say, matter.
Hi John, have you had a chance to visit Alex & Allyson’ Grey’s Chapel of Sacred Mirrors, which is in upstate New York, north of Manhattan? I enjoyed my visit there last year very much, and had thought of it as a place you might enjoy visiting too. Perhaps the community there is an instance of what you/Loeffler might call “second order culture”? I would not presume to judge, but I experienced a luminosity and openness there which was refreshing…much like I sense in your lucid dream reports. Thank you for your care in making those available to fellow @metapsychonauts.
I remember you mentioning that episode upstate. Upstate New York is famous for the Hudson River Valley School and a major hot spot for UFO visitations. According to Jeffrey Kripal Upstate was also where many of the weirdest cults and alternative religions got started. Thanks for your careful reading of these odd shifts as the incorporeal, time, space, void, place come together in all kinds of thought/feels.
Design must create spaces for users, not force compliance with technology. This is already what we are doing, Marco!
Von Forester said we should act always to increase the number of choices for other people. We are already doing this.
Observe the observations of other observers and make this process explicit to those others. We are already doing this.
I point to evidence such as the most recent interview I conducted with you on the subject of considering the audience. You may recall , Marco, that we worked with three observers articulating where they were observing from. This kind of practice, which we need to train, is attuned to the idiosyncratic of the other, enjoying differences, while simultaneously watching for the direction of the group. And this meta-recognizing, is what we are actually doing, when we are at our best. We are not always at our best!
We are, as most people alive today, getting confused by our differences, and try to eliminate them to preserve a sense of progress. Our demand for the simple and easy to understand is called Progress. We are acting out these many tensions in many of our forums here. And this is a healthy trend, dealing directly with the paradoxes we face as we move from a first order culture to a second order culture. We are transitional beings becoming something different than what we were becoming. I dedicate myself to the arrival of the fittest. These are the people of our future. We are them, they are us and they are turning noise into signals all the time if we were only sensitive enough to listen.
We often act out a need for alternate ways of coping and acting with others. This is a visionary impulse. And we need better skills to develop these latent capacities to share attention in our virtual spaces. Hence, my persistence, in trying to model and reveal some of the meta-patterns that are emerging in our discourse events. Sri Aurobindo and Gebser were not good at this. The conditions were not there for them as it is for us. They were prophets and poets but did not make very good predictions. Nor should we read them for that purpose.
I have consistently sought to point out the differences and seek direction, as we search for evidence rather than argue about inferences. We can stop the argument to nowhere, speak from what we actually desire, get out a piece of paper and draw a picture. Feel something in the body and move. Then the model we are currently using can then be made explicit to others rather than obscured in language that has died. We can model in the moment, tuning into tacit knowledge, the way a conductor and the audience do, when the conductor, raises his baton, and arranges for the shared attention of the ensemble to re-direct in a coherent fashion. We center in the field. Metaphors are the royal road to this kind of a Fifth Dimensional Communique. A gesture is a thought!
I have tried to model these cracks in the Cosmic Egg but we are being drowned out by the first order world view that only sees through single eye of the Yankee Dollar. Monetize, monetize, monetize is the mantra.
In a gig economy, with large firms no longer able to collude as successfully as they did, a more transparent economy would be cultivating different kinds of of cultural capacities than what most of us have been exposed to in our factory model educations.
So I am encouraging a new wave of explorations in how to develop these cultural capacities in a few that are committed to such possibility. Can we move out of the new feudalism designed by the few and towards something that is Post-Money? We are already doing this.
I am open to believe that we can retrain our attentions. I have a lot of tenacity but I also need to take a break on occasion, too, before I reset in eternity with all the other modelers in other dimensions. We need to take a break and listen to the Infinite with a third ear. And write it down!
Well, I enjoyed that whole discussion.