I see it differently, Mark. I think there was more going on than a heated exchange.
And subsequent accusations, denials, and retreats.
I do sense that there are perhaps many reactions that were ‘kept secret.’ I felt people were hiding something. And this is a lot what happens in heated arguments. People freeze and then try to change the subject. Talk about something nice, like the weather.
My question to Ed was about the tone of his voice. Not the question about Cosmic Time. A legitimate question for sure. And he respond with a voice that reminded me of the worst kind of interrogation tactics that the worst kind of prosecutors use.
And I know a lot about how prosecutor work in public spaces.
So he then asked a loaded question ( without curiosity but with contempt in his voice from my perspective), so there was much much more going on than a heated argument.
I also pointed out that I often share dreams in public ( a vulnerable role to play) and that he criticized me in public. He had asked, in the same kind of voice, in a previous video, " What gives you such confidence?"
So I am pointing to a Meta-Pattern. I have seen and heard this kind of voice and this kind of tactic from Ed before. And that is what I was responding to and that is what I made explicit in my communication to him and to the group.
I asked Ed, with genuine curiosity," Do you have a dream? "
He told me in the same voice , ( the Voice of the Critical/Judge)" I have told you before, I never dream." He also made a gesture, his palm facing me, that was at an angle and looked slightly effete, and that reminded me of gestures of people who make fun of gay people. Once again, I may not know that Ed intended to do that, but that is what I was responding to, as I mentioned his voice conveyed contempt rather than curiosity.
I also admitted that I could be wrong about my response. That I was trying to give sensory based feedback( to him and to the group). This is not easy to do when under fire, when the perceived abusive behavior is happening.
I told the group that I doubted that a polarity response with two persons in the group is good for the group? That is my bind here and I try to articulate this as a dilemma I was carrying for the group.
I am driven by the good of the group. I dont think others care about that as much as I do. Maybe it is because I have seen too often how people ignore and sweep under the rug conflicts and rush off to do other things and leave the persons stuck, often with one person dominating and trying to control the group.
I draw upon a lifetime of traumatic episodes where people shame others in public. I dont think that is just my personal experience. I believe you have mentioned, Mark, that you were shunned by a community, too.
So perhaps the fight, flight, freeze. tendency operates in the Cafe as well? You mention denial. I wonder if that is what you meant by denial?
I do not wish to re-open any wounds for this is a very delicate matter and this may not be the right place to deal with this issue. I am getting the feeling that we, at the Cafe, haven’t got the skills yet to deal effectively with this kind of ‘heated argument.’
I don’t think that the US Congress is very skilled at this eighter.
I notice also that Ed made an apology to the group, an apology that he has withdrawn and that will be deleted in 24 hours. I read it before it was deleted.
I had earlier on the call asked," What skills and abilities do we need to develop to make this virtual forum work for everyone?"
I can answer my own question and say that we need to learn how to pay attention to the Critic, the Dreamer.
Can a Dreamer who is active and public respond effectively to a Critic that claims he never dreams?
I certainly respect, Ed, enormously. He is much, much more than his behavior. I want to be very gentle with this topic.
My father, who was the cruelest man who ever lived, said towards the end of his trouble life, something tender… He said," I was very rough with you. You have been very gentle with me."
Maybe, Daddy, wasn’t the worst man in the world. A man who could say that could not have been all bad. He learned something about himself before he died.
I wonder if I have learned something from that experience. I want to disentangle from the binds and double binds and the triple binds and release the twisted energetics into a liberated pattern!
Like Mr, Crow!
It was Ed, Marco, who mentioned the novella in a previous thread. That is why I brought that up when I asked Ed what was his dream.
I think that there are plenty of double messages floating around and they are often conveyed in tones of voice, gesture and tempo-rhythms that happen really fast ( under the radar). It is these kind of double messages that I pay lots of attention to. 99 % of a person’s communication is non verbal.
It is really hard for a person like me to chunk down and chunk slow when there are so many mixed messages clogging up the system and no frame to work with. I share Ed’s frustration.
I imagine, Marco, that we would spend a lot of time examining binds and double binds. We would be hyper aware of these binding patterns in public spaces and be adept at working creatively with these patterns and stop traumatic episodes from happening. If they do happen, then the behavior must be separated from the identity of the person.
Are we there yet? Can we get to another level? Or will we continue to allow this heated arguments to get swept under the rug, get more distorted, and erupt in violent behavior? This is, for me, what people used to call ’ shadow work’. I have never liked that language and I think it keeps people too much in the dark.
I like to use Clean Language simply because it has changed my life, when my life was in great danger of being torn apart as I was attacked at the level of my identity, by my family, by Religion and by State. I learned how to meta-communicate or get killed.
This is a very dangerous world, both in physical spaces and in these virtual spaces.
I hope we grow in maturity and wisdom and can accept our double messages and the occassional dramas as gifts to our emerging cultural capacities. If we dont do this work who will?
This is, in my humble experience, what happens when there is no frame. There has been an attempt to address this, in Marco’s response above, and I welcome this as a good policy change. Open Frames can be creative and can also in public space invite unintended consequences.
Is it possible, Marco, that there will be an algorithm for dealing with binds anytime soon?