The Future of Democracy

My question for TJ and for Ed.

Ed…and when you are wondering if the USA is going to make it to 250, and you want to give guidance to your grandson, what would you like to have happen for your grandson?

TJ…and when it is a great blessing that your son shares what’s in his heart and mind and attracts friends who want to get out of the silos they are stuck in…and you toss a coin…what would you like to have happen to that coin?

And cherished United States of America… is there anything else about cherished?

God wants us to be men and women of vision , because “where there is no vision , the people perish” (Proverbs 29:18, KJV)

" How can you look into the face of a child and say," There is no hope?"-James Baldwin

My feeling, ( and it is a strong feeling) is that imagination is required to triangulate from the margins. I have had lots of practice.

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After the murder of George Floyd, a triad of concerned citizens gathered to create a felt sense of that was happening in the USA psyche. This is a mature practice for those who want to learn the somatic skills to triangulate from the margins. I welcome TJ’s feedback as he is a sensitive historian. This is what I imagine is the beginning of the inclusion of a discarded middle, and the forming of a neo-human who can withstand the tensions of the next wave of brutality as the evil that men do live after them. Can we deconstruct this egregore, that our slave holding, founding fathers, created and left to roam the earth? This can’t be done without a finely tuned somatic intelligence. And then what happens? The Body Politic resonates at a much higher frequency. Is this just a vain belief? Will the sins of the fathers continue to haunt us? Or will we take back our power and contribute to a new liberation movement? And what does the Angel of History want to have happen?

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Of course I would like the coin to land on… rosy utopian visions, a society in which the voices of compassionate engagement prevail, where trust underlies effort and wisdom informs decisions… but that’s what this thread and the larger conversation here is about, isn’t it? How do we get there from here? Somedays I am full of hope that in my limited way I am preparing and equipping my sons to face their futures with confidence and courage; other days I am scared out of my mind about the world into which they are headed (and very, very soon indeed). Loved Kate’s picture about the piano crashing down the stairs - destroying itself and the stairs as it falls because it’s heavy enough. Where do I position myself? I can’t stop the piano. Do I slow it down with my sacrificed body? Do I jump out of the way? I definitely shout a warning at the top of my lungs to those below. Maybe that’s all I can do for now whether it makes a difference or not.

I can’t. But likewise - and James Baldwin would know this - I would not want them to remain ignorant of their many foes, past and present. As you said, elites don’t step aside and they don’t tend to think of the whole before they take what they want. As Ed said, there are a substantial number of people who chant about preserving the Constitution (though perhaps in the end they really only mean the 2nd Amendment?) while essentially seeking to destroy the checks and balances that make it work for so large a nation and so diverse a range of opinions and interests.
Hope, yes, but a subject of an authoritarian empire must express it differently than a citizen of a democratic republic. And one bereft of all rights in the midst of a civil war must express it differently still.

This land is your land; this land is my land;… this land was made for you and me.”
It is too late for me to believe anything other than that all human beings have value. America at its best holds this ideal. So many still struggle against vicious opposition to make this ideal a reality in their lives, yet the ideal is a noble one and must be worth the struggle.
We open our eyes and raise our voices, while the worthy goal draws near and recedes, recedes and draws near…
And there we are…

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And I agree with you wholeheartedly.

If there is anything I foster in my grandchildren (which one could call “guidance”, even if I don’t) it is their imagination, creativity and openness which at some point in the not-too-distant future will be under relentless attack from “the (school) system” we have created for ourselves. As long as I am around, I can help them resist and persevere. If I make a sound enough impression, perhaps they will be able to continue on their own after I am gone. Now, that sounds almost like a hope, so I guess I’m not completely hopeless :wink:.

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@noibus - You brought up two very interesting articles in the recent “Consciously Evolving Language” thread, one on cancel culture and one on cultural appropriation. They were very interesting reads. Your thoughts on both would be a welcome addition to this discussion.

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This answer to a very layered question is pronounced by a man who knew how to triangulate from the margins. He was able to create the conditions for his own break through and for the breakthrough of others. When I was in my first year of college and close to suicide I came across his novel Giovanni’s Room, which was a tragic gay love story, with white characters only. It was only until I read The Fire Next Time that I realized Baldwin was black. In his late works, he embodied the deepest paradoxes of love, which came in all kinds of shapes and sizes, creating maps for a new territory, in Another Country. His language is a gift that keeps on giving.

" The blacks did not so much use Christian symbols as recognize them -recognize them before the Christians came along- and , thus, reinvested these symbols with their original energy. The proof of this, simply is the continued existence and authority of the blacks: it is through the creation of the black church that an unwritten, dispersed, and violated inheritance has been handed down. The word “revelation” has very little meaning in the recognized languages: yet, it is the only word for the moment I am attempting to approach. The moment changes one forever. One is confronted with the agony and the nakedness and the beauty of a power which has no ending and no end, which contains you, and which you contain and which will be using you when your bones are dust. One confronts a self both limited and boundless, born to die, and born to live. The creature is, also, the creation which is both the self and more than the self. One is set free, then, to live among one’s terrors, hour by hour and day by day, alone, and yet, never alone. My soul is a witness!-so one’s ancestors, proclaim, and in the deadliest of the midnight hours." The Devil Finds Work

As we studied, TJ, the possibilities of a Second Axial Age, I can’t help but hear a strong gnostic voice in brother Baldwin. He found his voice. " We have to find a way to use it."

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Remember the sixties? Consciousness raising was the term people used, often, a term that started in the feminist movement. Can we revisit what we learned from that crazy decade and the decades after, and then, listen to what the young folks are telling us, today? I think this is a winning combination, as transgenerational collaborations, can reverberate, like the church bells we can still hear on Sunday mornings, creating a sound impression of that which was and will be conducted forward through time and for time . Margaret Mead once said to a group of her young students, " If you don’t have a grandmother, find one!"

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This desired outcome, if held by enough persons, would transform the planetary political landscape. What needs to happen to make this happen?
What do we want? Tax the rich!
When do we want it? Now!
Can you catch the rhythm?

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I was watching/listening to these two amazing human beings this morning in a conversation which does respond in a complex way, to the conversation here on the future of democracy.

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What a lovely synchronicity and thanks for sharing this. I really look forward to watching these two. I just heard a week ago a conversation between Baldwin and Maya Angelou. You can judge a man by the company he keeps. They were such fine public intellectuals. The quality of their discourse is on such a high level. They demonstrate to us that conversation is an art form. I fear that after the last election that art is in serious decline. Let’s try to turn it around.

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Because you asked, I will share thoughts on the broader discussion or context in which this discussion and the articles fit, the reality of politics. I am apprehensive about this as I assume not everyone will like what I share. Part of a discussion is to have different views presented.

I view politics through a different lens. As someone who, several lifetimes ago worked as a paid staffer for a congressional campaign, the reality of what happens is vastly different from the viewer, listener, voter side. I learned back then that stripped bare politics is about money and power, not ideology, idealism, rational arguments or untried ideas. It is about base emotion. Can the right people vote to assure I am (and a majority of others) elected or reelected and once elected how do I consolidate that power so I can stay to move the ideals I espouse closer to reality.

It all starts with language. It is crafted and used to influence votes and support; ideology is mostly secondary as in the end everything comes down to what is practical and possible and who has the power and numbers. It is transactional. Without the power or votes, ideas die. Ideas that have no chance of passage create an opposition which in turn limits the chances in other areas (e.g., Green New Deal, Socialism, Defund the Police = lost votes in middle America and certain suburbs). Words and ideas matter—the point is to know whether that results in a net gain or loss of votes and where that happens. One cannot control the passions of people which makes politics so difficult and often what initially has good intentions is coopted by the opposition and turned against them.

One must consider how the opposition will manipulate the ideal, language, or position. The battle is then over the narrative and the Dems lost on all three of those in key states (lost house districts and also statehouse seats). One needs to understand the personal, community, local, regional, state and national implications of one’s efforts. This is not to say those passions behind the movements aren’t legitimate and worth pursuing. Rep. Cliburn said the police slogan hurt Dems and resulted in lost House seats = loss of power.

Language and storytelling are foundational to success in politics. People in the heartland and elsewhere like it that Trump speaks like them, simply and directly, without apology or fear of offense. Biden is similar, but the Democratic Leadership speaks like educated lawyers using big words and jargon that requires a dictionary often; or their priorities focus on issues of little to no importance to the Midwest, rural America and other places. The Dems fail to make their case, in part, because Trump has already branded them or makes AOC the face and that = Socialism = loss of votes to Dems in many house and senate races. Dems are slow to react, respond and while they may think it will go away, it won’t. This “above the fray” attitude by Dems is what certain groups find offensive. It is cast by the R’s and perceived as being elitist, as flaunting an air of intellectual and personal superiority.

It is incumbent on Dems to be clear, direct, to the point and practical in defining a need, offering a solution, making a case and tooting their horn when successful. If however they go off in pursuit of ideals that have no support, they do the party and the country a disservice. Only by being in power and remaining there can certain issues be addressed and embedded into the fabric of society that then makes them harder to unravel.

So my summary, people vote based on emotion, not ideas. Whether they like someone bears more weight than ideas; whether they have the correct letter (R or D) after their name on the ballot matters. People try to argue over this point but what is rational is not always what is true.

Yes, those who are idealistic and have strong single-issue beliefs (climate, abortion, religious freedom, guns) may focus on rational arguments and information but in the end, they are in the minority. For most people voting it is emotion, a personal liking (think Clinton, Kerry on the dislike scale). A voter may give a rational justification, but as behavioral economics research suggests, we are not often as rational as we think we are.

Politics is about feelings, power, and having a majority of votes. It is about what is actually possible, now. Slogans and ideas begin the process but one must ultimately consider what is the practical reality, cost, implications of grand ideas? Who does it help, hurt, who pays and who benefits and when? And do you have the power to make it happen?

Just my opinion based on my observations.

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So TRUE!!! And we give those Ideas the Emotions ! We need to come to an Understanding (When???) these two “Rational & Emotion” are capacities within us that we can learn to bring together in a more workable way & the Whole Human 'Body,Brain,Heart & Dare I say something Larger(which Politics is a Aspect). From my very limited relationship to Politics & Power on a scale of being a Child,Lover,Parent,Co-worker,Friend & probably the most Important is as a Parent,Politics & Power for this Voter has been about How to engage those within myself first Above All. Then Maybe in a Small way one can go Big?

Thank U Rick for this very useful piece,one that has a lot of the elements I’ve had to bring " To Bear" in recent times with Family,Friends & those I have Difficulty even Maintaining a Balanced Tension of Emotion & Rational Expression. I Do Think,Feel & Want a Better-New Way of Engaging in Politics (Sharing Resources) & the Power(Ability to Make Happen) .

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Thanks for sharing, Rick, and I don’t think what you have said would come as a shock to anyone, I would call what you have shared conventional wisdom, And if it aint broke don’t fix it.

I worked for a big consultant in New York. Politicians on both sides of the aisle sought his advice and for a considerable fee, We told them which issues would get them votes and which issues would cost them votes. This was right around the time that the Lewinsky scandal broke. He told me that Bill Clinton was typical. Certain wealthy women, he claimed, threw themselves at politicians and would give lots of money to a campaign for certain kinds of attention. That was thirty years ago but I’m sure that way of thinking has changed very little.

My boss was a big player, lots of influence, plenty of money and I was the support staff. He was married, I knew his wife. Once, he made a pass at me. I told him that he would be disappointed. I was not offended by his behavior but he was not my type and I skillfully re-directed his attention. He never made a pass at me again.

I continued to work for him for a couple of years and I learned a lot and was grateful for the experience. Mixed messages have been the norm for me. I was raised by a member of the Klan, I come from the deep South. And I predicted that Trump would win. And he did, I knew that because I worked with working class people, I have been a member of the servant class, myself, and I know the 1% really well. Some of them are very nice people.

But the mood, at least in NY, is changed. The streets are full of trash, the subways are falling apart, the streets are empty, the rats are on the rise, tent cities are returning, the toilets aren’t working. It looks worse that it did when I first arrived in the mid 70s.

I agree with you.

Once again, I agree with this assessment.

And when the battle is over the narrative…

This is an organizing metaphor and one that we are addicted to.

Metaphors and stories are the way we make sense of reality.

But which metaphors? Which stories? How do we know which narratives are alive and which ones are dying, if not already dead?

This is a narrative that is familiar to most of us, Rick. Thanks for sharing your opinions.

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John, my scattered family, close and far, were working poor, farmers etc., and those still alive, many are Trump supporters, which I am not. So, like you, I am familiar with how they ingest and process information; including those points that have no basis in fact.

This is a narrative that is familiar to most of us

As you said, some of the narratives are familiar; what is often overlooked is how deep they run and what kinds of oppositions they produce. Those brands (socialism etc.,) were never fully refuted or answered in a way to demonstrate a core affinity to the needs of the working people; a sharing of ideals that could shatter the stories they hear elsewhere. Instead the narratives went unanswered or elicited a tepid response.

I would call what you have shared conventional wisdom

This process may be business as usual, it is the world of those in power and they will not relinquish it easily. As the old saying goes “if you go after the king make sure you don’t miss.”

A point worth considering: to make ‘change’ one must build on the the passion, turn it into the long term commitment and weather the storms while building broad support/community and the infrastructure necessary to actualize the ideals. How long can the passion and energy remain? Trump is able to do that, can the Dems?

It is easy to speak truth to power when you have nothing to lose, it is much harder and the fall greater when you value something you want to protect and it is even more so when actions directly affect someone else, a family, personal security, profession, an income. Take away safe gerrymandered districts and the narratives on both sides would change; they would soften; and would require considering multiple viewpoints, if not, they would be voted out of office.

We need ideas, ideals and passions but at some point they need to turn into something practical. So what is more important arguing over? What are our personal priorities and how do they align to the larger ideals? The articles TJ mentioned wander through such questions offering viewpoints and perspectives worthy of our consideration; where should our priorities lie, that is a personal, communal and national question which may have different answers in each instance.

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Thanks. I cannot rightly lay claim to the title of historian, but I do hope someday to be a sensitive observer of things human in time and time-freedom. :slightly_smiling_face:

Riveting video - you three wore vulnerability like champions and I salute you! Clean Language, as usual, touches the place where the limits of verbal conversation do not necessarily stop communication and the actions/gestures “speak volumes.” I will have to read through the original “Healing White Body Supremacy” thread. Obviously there is connection to the topic of the future of American democracy, but there is so much to process - besides sifting through my own reactions to / thoughts on “strange fruit” - that perhaps it would be best done there.

I will say this:
Michael (52:43) “If we’re always trying to be perfect at doing this, we’re not going to learn it.”
Brilliantly and beautifully put.

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Thank you, TJ, for your attention to our trio’s attempt to embody and voice these layers of our past and hold the space. Language and gesture are conductors of strange powers, and we know more, much more than what can be said out loud within our highly polarized, social spaces. Unless, we have a method for doing qualitative research, such as CL, much of our discomfort gets swept under the rug, labelled and dismissed, and we are reduced to data and statistics, which drive us ever deeper into isolation and feelings of dread. A politics of resentments is the norm. Please feel free to review the thread and post meta-comments. I believe, and this is a strong belief, that we can learn the arts of co-sponsorship, and create new kinds of alliances, and ultimately, tap into superpowers, which alI Axial Age orientations, draw upon.

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This could become another project that we could develop at Cultural Somatics. I would highly recommend Grandmother’s Hands which sparked the inspiration for this experiment. The author, Rezma Manekeem, is an activist and therapist, and I hope we can expand upon his work. I do believe many cross-ferritizations are happening. Anchoring safety is my first priority.

“I might be drunk and in the gutter but I am looking up at the stars.”-Oscar Wilde

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Same-sex marriage and striking down the sodomy laws were very practical results for gay people and for the people who love them. Legal discrimination destroyed people, and created conditions for creating wedge issues that distract and obfuscate from pressing ecological problems., I have direct experience of being scapegoated. and I am not naïve or a wild eyed romantic who can’t tie his shoelaces.

Gay people can create structures, share wealth, and resources. The benefit to the larger society, once the mindsets change, are immense and our immunity is enhanced. When people are allowed to develop their gifts all communities flourish.

What are the stories that we use to tell our stories? My effort at liberation, which started in childhood, began with a close reading of the Bible, especially, the story of David and Jonathan, and the poetry of Jesus of Nazareth. My friends in the movement were often irreligious but I had a deep resonance with the wisdom literature I grew up with. Jesus was my first boyfriend.

As we look backward and forward together, we can call upon different ways of developing meta-narratives and become ever more sensitive to the background knowledge that our stories reveal. This is what I find missing in your real politics message, RIck, and appreciate that you may have a different lens from which you scan your world. Otherwise, I think we could find considerable overlaps in our concerns, which are always revisable.

Pragmatics withhout a vision supports the status quo. The Visionary, the Realist and the Critic must function for societies to work well but a balanced triadic interplay between these functions is rare. Most of our political discourse seems trapped in polarized debates that go nowhere. I hope we can raise our skills in this forum and the course that we are doing with Lisa.

I do hear a positive intention in your remarks, Rick, and I am open to trialogues as long as we stay away from the language of contempt, which has reached epic proportions. Everyone has a right to try to be understood. by others. If you have had odd experiences, that don’t fit the status quo, it becomes a challenge.

" Sometimes it becomes more that just a duty to speak one’s mind, it becomes a pleasure." _ Oscar Wilde.

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I am currently reading Strategy: A History by Lawrence Freedman (2013). This book takes a deep look at the evolution of general principles of ‘conflict management,’ and I like that only the first half deals with military history. Freedman also deals with the use or misuse of ‘strategy’ in such areas as political mobilization and business practice and really conveys a sense of how effective or ineffective attempts to realize desired outcomes in the face of active or passive-aggressive opposition can be. A large, open society by definition has many narratives, many visions of what-ought-to-be which conflict and collide as they jostle for position and attention. And very many of these narratives are far from dead.
My ‘polarity’: reaching for new stories (or re-commitment to old ideals framed in new ways) and acknowledging the weight behind metaphors of war…

It is worthy of note that the Founding Fathers (*cue angel-choir), on the basis of being sensitive historians in their own rights, distrusted the emotional component of demos kratos so much that they based their system on containing and constraining it as much as possible within the principle of non-arbitrary representative government. Despite this, their fears of “faction” (not political party so much as the idea that party loyalty should come before seeking the good of the whole) have come true.

A great conundrum to be sure.

History bears witness to the vital part that the ‘prophets’ have played in human progress - which is evidence of the ultimate practical value of expressing unreservedly the truth as one sees it. Yet it also becomes clear that the acceptance and spreading of their vision has always depended on another class of men - ‘leaders’ who had to be philosophical strategists, striking a compromise between truth and men’s receptivity to it…
The prophets must be stoned; that is their lot, and the test of their self-fulfillment. But a leader who is stoned may merely prove that he has failed in his function through a deficiency of wisdom, or through confusing his function with that of a prophet.

– B.H. Liddell Hart Strategy (1954; xx-xxi)

I suspect this is what Chris Hedges means when he says speaking the truth to power has become less important now than speaking the truth about power. And also why he says our times need ‘movements’ rather than ‘leaders.’ As far as history is concerned, that last point would truly be something different. But one thing I do believe is that true democracy requires (child-like not childish) adults. Self-government requires intelligent, imaginative maturity.
The angel of history responds: “And that is why it is so rare.”

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John, I don’t disagree with your points. And ‘what is missing from my post’ was adequately covered by you and others so I chose not retread that ground.

I think there are times in forums such as these that one side gets represented only. We often feel good that discussing a vision is enough, that it is an accomplishment in itself, perhaps to some but, for me, to make the vision a reality is more important. It must be actualized, and to actualize it you have to have power and opportunity, that is all I was saying. There are many competing voices out there seeking to be heard and others seeking to cancel the other.

A vision to one person is an one accomplishment in a grander vision to another. To use your language, Mitch McConnell has a’ metavision’ and it is not limited to a couple legal accomplishments. He got his opportunity and has now seeded America for decades to come with his vision–which will affect everything that touches our lives due to the judges he seated for life. He is currently holding aid to undermine Biden so he can blame him and Dems in a future metanarrative that will be used to take back the House in 2022 and make it easier to win the presidency in in 2024. That is the arena he is plays in. If people suffer in the meantime so be it.

While politicians and historians wax on about the founders and their intentions the current lot of politicians should be judged by what they fund (their priorities) and what they do, or accomplish. Promises and rhetoric are just empty words as the poor, immigrants, african-americans, and other disenfranchised well know.

TJ the founders were good Enlightenment stewards they assumed, as did most of us, that rational heads (Enlightenment belief) would prevail. Have they? This story is far from over. And to your point, Is Trump a leader or did he spawn a movement?

A side note mentioned earlier which I think relates to a point Michael made about focus and intention…A pragmatic way to change the vitriolic narrative is to change the structure of politics–which starts with mundane gerrymandering changes and voter suppression issues. That is not sexy, or inspiring but without it the status remains quo and and in the hands of the powerful; something Stacy Abrams and African-Americans well know.

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