I’s okay with me but please message Marco so he can update. TJ should be consulted too.
Nice catch! Yes…it is true…there is a world of “else” to this 'true.'
Ultimately, this word ‘true’ would encompass relationships beyond my previous knowledge and beyond what the mind can currently foresee.
Beyond your previous knowledge and beyond what the mind can currently foresee…and beyond what the mind can currently foresee…and whereabouts is that beyond?.. Does beyond have a size or shape?
These are the kinds of questions I want to pursue tomorrow at the Cafe. See you there…
I hope to explore this question more fully at our cafe tomorrow. I hope you can make it for I would like to make more explicit the “unconscious archaic spirit.”
I think the Turning test is perhaps a really bad test. Maybe we can explore some of the implications of this tomorrow at the meet up?
So much rich material here, again, to catch up with…I intend to review this thread again before our next talk.
Regarding the timing of the Café, tomorrow specifically: I am unable to make an earlier meeting, @Douggins, because my wife and I have an appointment to tour a preschool for our younger daughter, and I don’t think I will be back in time to start the Café early. So I’d like to stick with the currently scheduled time tomorrow.
In general, personally, I could meet earlier, but the 1 pm Mountain start time was determined in another thread and the earlier time didn’t work as well for @patanswer. See Consciousness Seminars planning thread.
But of course, these are provisional structures, open to revision. It ain’t easy to synchronize across multiple time zones! That’s why my preference is to have a steady time that mostly works, so we can focus our discurisive energies on the content of the talks, rather than time management.
I have created a calendar view of Cosmos to help us visualize and plan for future talks and events. As you’ll see, I’ve reserved Tuesdays at 1 pm and Thursdays at 6 pm Mountain time for weekly events. This doesn’t mean we that we have to do something every week, but that I’ve blocked off those windows in the calendar to keep them open and prevent double-booking.
Note: Tuesday weekly here is for the “Cosmos Café” talks, while Thursday is for Metapsychosis-related reading groups (e.g., Spheres) and other events TBD (poetry readings? open mics? other types experimental dialogues?). The latter time is meant to be more friendly to folks in North America who work during the day; the earlier, Tuesday time better accommodates folks in Europe and other parts.
Of course, others co-op members CAN create events at other times, on other topics, and we can add them to the same calendar. I am working on a way to structure this process and get the information into some regular form of communication to our list. For now, if you have an idea, you can message me or start a dedicated thread. The times currently indicated reflect when I can personally be available on a more or less consistent basis. But obviously, the co-op calendar will not ultimately revolve around my personal availability. We just haven’t evolved the platform yet to support distributed scheduling.
We didn’t get to talk about this on the call (because we were enjoying a fun and thoughtful experiment! Thanks again!). I am really only echoing Gebser here about the archaic:
“There is no subject-object polarity (let alone duality), no differentiation between self and other, between soul and nature, between the individual and the universe.” Ulrich J Mohrhoff, AntiMatters Vol 2(#3), 2008, “Evolution of Consciousness According to Jean Gebser”*, p. 53
(*Shame on Mohrhoff - according to Gebser ‘evolution’ is the wrong way to think of things, but anyway…)
I would hope/think such total connection to the energies of life, once full consciousness comes in, entails a weighty responsibility to ensure that we are heading to positive, inquisitive, creative, and supportive relationships “between self and other… soul and nature… individual and universe.” This would be the common human ground on which even divergent beliefs should overlap.
Now, as you guys discussed last week, there is addressing the choir here and there is “acting-in-the-world”…
" Positive, inquisitive, creative, and supportive relationships…" I couldn’t agree with you more.
I felt our emerging conversation had all of those qualities. I only regret we didnt have another hour to refine our maps. It might be fun if would could scan our Maps of Time and make it a part of the archive. The next step might be to look at the maps of Ed, Marco and yourself and do a comparative study, listen to the video, discover patterns as we move back and forth from video to the actual maps to written discourse ( such as we are engaged in now) and play around with all of this very good data. Also we need to add the books we mentioned, expressing gratitude to the " library angel."
In a previous post, TJ, you invited us to take a look at Whitehead, Gebser and Auribindo. I believe we can cook up something that everyone in our community would enjoy, that would compliment the ongoing Sloterjdiik project. As we have had this interesting learning event today, I wonder how we can take these learnings and develop another mini-workshop? Perhaps we are learning how we learn? A meta-learning occasion! I’m sure Gebser would be proud.
As Taleb says:
“We are quick to forget that just being alive is an extraordinary piece of good luck,
a remote event, a chance occurrence of monstrous proportions.
Remember that you are a Black Swan.”
Yes, this should be the common ground, but try to get someone to recognize that. As I see it, most of what people “believe” is tied or linked, or perhaps even welded, to their egos. I’m not yet willing to go so far as “self” here, since the vast majority of people has never undertaken a search for self – in fact, these days it’s downright discouraged. As @johnnydavis54 noted in our session, certain feminists take offense at the very notion of the hero’s journey, but it is quite clear to me that they haven’t understood what that journey is about, nor do they have the slightest idea what might be the feminine version of that quest. Consequently, all that remains is the ego, and it is a exceedingly fragile construct, and it’s easily threatened. There is, as you so aptly say, “a weighty responsibility” involved. I don’t think egos are capable of responsibility. For that you need a self. We’ve got a lot farther to go than most of us – like me – would like to admit.
Well, sure, if you’re going to get all rubber- meet-road about it… (LOL!)
Yes, you’re absolutely right. I like your distinction between a fragile ego ready to collapse - or to react violently- at a mere question (self-worth equated with being ‘right’) and a secure Self able to hold a belief among beliefs, and able to yet recognize humanity around it. The “what kind of person am I…?” path takes much work indeed. And that gets followed by “what kind of culture am I contributing to…?”
Farther to go? Oh, yes…
Cosmos Café: Time, Space, & The Hebrew Alphabet [01/09]
Cosmos Café: Integrating Science, Art, and Time [6/5]